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(May 2, 2018 at 3:47 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you think telling someone "FU" and calling them a "homophobic dickwad" is civil?
If someone is going to get all bent out of shape because an internet stranger tells them FU (especially when they are too lazy to spell it out), then perhaps that person should stay away from forums where intense exchanges are bound to happen. If their skin is so thin that they get that offended, they can leave and find a forum that will soothe their fragile egos.
Wait. Aren't you the one that is always complaining about silly things like ableism and supposed homophobia that is not meant to be taken that way at all? You're one of the most sensitive on the forum, so I just find your post a bit funny.
What CatholicLady is looking for is civil discussions, kind of like Sam Harris or someone like that would have with a religious person. That's not because Sam Harris is too sensitive and can't handle cursing, but he's trying to have intelligent discussions that don't just turn into a shitshow with shitflinging from both sides. If someone is just saying mean things about gay people to be intentionally provocative, then that's one thing. That person is probably not trying to be civil in the first place.
May 2, 2018 at 8:36 pm (This post was last modified: May 2, 2018 at 8:39 pm by Joods.)
(May 2, 2018 at 8:30 pm)FFaith Wrote:
(May 2, 2018 at 8:10 pm)Joods Wrote: If someone is going to get all bent out of shape because an internet stranger tells them FU (especially when they are too lazy to spell it out), then perhaps that person should stay away from forums where intense exchanges are bound to happen. If their skin is so thin that they get that offended, they can leave and find a forum that will soothe their fragile egos.
Wait. Aren't you the one that is always complaining about silly things like ableism and supposed homophobia that is not meant to be taken that way at all? You're one of the most sensitive on the forum, so I just find your post a bit funny.
What CatholicLady is looking for is civil discussions, kind of like Sam Harris or someone like that would have with a religious person. That's not because Sam Harris is too sensitive and can't handle cursing, but he's trying to have intelligent discussions that don't just turn into a shitshow with shitflinging from both sides. If someone is just saying mean things about gay people to be intentionally provocative, then that's one thing. That person is probably not trying to be civil in the first place.
Sweetie, if I was that sensitive, I would have left the forum already. Voicing my opinions on a few things that I don't agree with is my right. As it is everyone else's right. I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to appease those who want to get their panties in a bunch. If they want a forum that limits the free speech of not only others, but themselves too, they are welcome to start their own forum with their own rules.
I've dealt with members here who have said a lot of shitty things to me. I'm still here aren't I? I'm not asking for their rights to be infringed upon, am I? I'm not asking for a safe place on these boards, am I? Nope. I take my licks like anyone. I participate in threads and I face the consequences of the replies I get. Some people simply can grow a pair or they can ignore those posts that they find insulting or they can utilize the ignore feature, as I have done on occasion.
Clearly you don't have a clue about me if you think I'm one of the most sensitive on the forums so I find your post a bit disingenuous.
Oh, and incidentally, we have rules against hate speech, trolling and flaming. If someone feels like they have had any of that done to them, they can utilize the report button and complain to the staff. Rules are a thing here. Staff can't discipline the offenders if the offended don't report the offensive posts, now can they?
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
May 2, 2018 at 8:41 pm (This post was last modified: May 2, 2018 at 8:47 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(May 2, 2018 at 8:26 pm)Joods Wrote:
(May 2, 2018 at 8:21 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Joods, as I explained, it has nothing to do with having thin skin. Name calling and cussing out just don't do for a productive, inviting discussion. And it would be beneficial, I think, to have a place where interested parties could engage in honest discussion without having to comb through the name calling, shit posting, etc.
It was just an idea of what I thought might be a good addition to the forums. It was not a complaint.
I didn't say you were complaining. However, it is redundant to start yet another sub-forum when we already have a sub-forum for the purpose that you are stating. You want to be able to have civil discussion without all of the fluff, take it to the debate section because that's precisely what you are asking for: A debate.
In this whole time of discussion, have you actually ventured in there to read the rules and what it's about yet? If not, I suggest you take a peek. It's not a rigid as you think and you can implement many of the things you are asking for in a sub-forum.
That is fair enough. I guess my hangup with the debate section is that I have to establish ahead of time who I want to have on there, and no one else can freely jump in to join the discussion after the fact lol. I want everyone to have the chance to participate, if they would like. I'm not really asking for a debate, either. Just discussion/exchange of ideas.
(May 2, 2018 at 8:30 pm)FFaith Wrote:
(May 2, 2018 at 8:10 pm)Joods Wrote: If someone is going to get all bent out of shape because an internet stranger tells them FU (especially when they are too lazy to spell it out), then perhaps that person should stay away from forums where intense exchanges are bound to happen. If their skin is so thin that they get that offended, they can leave and find a forum that will soothe their fragile egos.
Wait. Aren't you the one that is always complaining about silly things like ableism and supposed homophobia that is not meant to be taken that way at all? You're one of the most sensitive on the forum, so I just find your post a bit funny.
I think you've got the wrong impression of Joods. She is a level headed poster and does a good job being objective and fair. I certainly wouldn't peg her as one of the whiny or insensitive ones.
Quote:What CatholicLady is looking for is civil discussions, kind of like Sam Harris or someone like that would have with a religious person. That's not because Sam Harris is too sensitive and can't handle cursing, but he's trying to have intelligent discussions that don't just turn into a shitshow with shitflinging from both sides. If someone is just saying mean things about gay people to be intentionally provocative, then that's one thing. That person is probably not trying to be civil in the first place.
FF, you are correct lol. This is actually exactly what I'm proposing here. Thanks for explaining it!
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
(May 2, 2018 at 8:26 pm)Joods Wrote: I didn't say you were complaining. However, it is redundant to start yet another sub-forum when we already have a sub-forum for the purpose that you are stating. You want to be able to have civil discussion without all of the fluff, take it to the debate section because that's precisely what you are asking for: A debate.
In this whole time of discussion, have you actually ventured in there to read the rules and what it's about yet? If not, I suggest you take a peek. It's not a rigid as you think and you can implement many of the things you are asking for in a sub-forum.
That is fair enough. I guess my hangup with the debate section is that I have to establish ahead of time who I want to have on there, and no one else can freely jump in to join the discussion after the fact lol. I want everyone to have the chance to participate, if they would like. I'm not really asking for a debate, either. Just discussion/exchange of ideas.
Yes they can. All you'd have to do is let staff know that you wish for so and so to be able to post in the debate and they are let in. This can happen at any time. Go check it out. At least do that much and see if you'd be willing to initiate something there. I'd even be willing to be your testing partner if it makes you comfortable. You can think of a subject we'd be able to discuss and go from there. Read the rules of that section first though.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
(May 2, 2018 at 8:30 pm)FFaith Wrote: Wait. Aren't you the one that is always complaining about silly things like ableism and supposed homophobia that is not meant to be taken that way at all? You're one of the most sensitive on the forum, so I just find your post a bit funny.
What CatholicLady is looking for is civil discussions, kind of like Sam Harris or someone like that would have with a religious person. That's not because Sam Harris is too sensitive and can't handle cursing, but he's trying to have intelligent discussions that don't just turn into a shitshow with shitflinging from both sides. If someone is just saying mean things about gay people to be intentionally provocative, then that's one thing. That person is probably not trying to be civil in the first place.
Sweetie, if I was that sensitive, I would have left the forum already. Voicing my opinions on a few things that I don't agree with is my right. As it is everyone else's right. I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to appease those who want to get their panties in a bunch. If they want a forum that limits the free speech of not only others, but themselves too, they are welcome to start their own forum with their own rules.
I've dealt with members here who have said a lot of shitty things to me. I'm still here aren't I? I'm not asking for their rights to be infringed upon, am I? I'm not asking for a safe place on these boards, am I? Nope. I take my licks like anyone. I participate in threads and I face the consequences of the replies I get. Some people simply can grow a pair or they can ignore those posts that they find insulting or they can utilize the ignore feature, as I have done on occasion.
Clearly you don't have a clue about me if you think I'm one of the most sensitive on the forums so I find your post a bit disingenuous.
Oh, and incidentally, we have rules against hate speech, trolling and flaming. If someone feels like they have had any of that done to them, they can utilize the report button and complain to the staff. Rules are a thing here. Staff can't discipline the offenders if the offended don't report the offensive posts, now can they?
CL is not asking to limit anyone's free speech (and free speech has nothing to do with these forums, only the government). People would have the choice to post in the civility section or whatever other section they want to post in.
May 2, 2018 at 8:50 pm (This post was last modified: May 2, 2018 at 9:20 pm by vulcanlogician.)
(May 2, 2018 at 5:32 pm)johan Wrote:
(May 2, 2018 at 3:47 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you think telling someone "FU" and calling them a "homophobic dickwad" is civil?
Yes. So I ask again, who gets to decide where the line is. Because your line and my line might not be in the same place.
Hey, devil's advocate here. It seems like the drawing of a line concerning offensive behavior is impossible because it is rather subjective (as has been pointed out) but such lines are drawn all the time.
Consider trolling. The mods do a fairly good job at taking care of trolls, yet what a troll post actually is is somewhat ambiguous. Some people are clearly over that line (Zen Klassen) yet others flirt with the boundary, and are tolerated because their technical conformity with the guidelines. There is some ambiguity there. LP might have to crack a few heads on occasion. But order is maintained. It doesn't matter that there is not a clear and stark line between what is and isn't trolling.
I know I've said this already, but I think that self-policing would make the "civility subforum" possible. Drawing up a bunch of rules and guidelines for acceptable behavior is not going to make it work. It shouldn't be a place where offensive things are never said... it should be a place where people create threads with civil discussion in mind.
That said, I think we ought to consider what might actually end up being accomplished by creating the subforum. I seriously have my doubts about its utility. Is it really a step in the right direction?
I mean... when you click on "New Posts" do you want to see this?
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What's everyone up to right now?
Thomas Aquinas is the Greatest Thinker Who Ever Lived
joke time
Baptist Preacher Arrested for Lude Behavior
Why I Think Everyone's Life Would Be Better With Jesus Christ
(May 2, 2018 at 6:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The mods would get to decide, just as they decide on whether or not any rule is broken.
This is because we have a document to reference in order to determine whether the rule is broken.
As the originator of the suggestion, give us a blurb that is a prototype of what the a rule defining civility would look like. Examples are not really helpful in this instance, and the thought that "civil" doesn't really need to be explained is a bit short sighted.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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(May 2, 2018 at 8:26 pm)Joods Wrote: I didn't say you were complaining. However, it is redundant to start yet another sub-forum when we already have a sub-forum for the purpose that you are stating. You want to be able to have civil discussion without all of the fluff, take it to the debate section because that's precisely what you are asking for: A debate.
In this whole time of discussion, have you actually ventured in there to read the rules and what it's about yet? If not, I suggest you take a peek. It's not a rigid as you think and you can implement many of the things you are asking for in a sub-forum.
That is fair enough. I guess my hangup with the debate section is that I have to establish ahead of time who I want to have on there, and no one else can freely jump in to join the discussion after the fact lol. I want everyone to have the chance to participate, if they would like. I'm not really asking for a debate, either. Just discussion/exchange of ideas.
(May 2, 2018 at 8:30 pm)FFaith Wrote: Wait. Aren't you the one that is always complaining about silly things like ableism and supposed homophobia that is not meant to be taken that way at all? You're one of the most sensitive on the forum, so I just find your post a bit funny.
I think you've got the wrong impression of Joods. She is a level headed poster and does a good job being objective and fair. I certainly wouldn't peg her as one of the whiny or insensitive ones.
Quote:What CatholicLady is looking for is civil discussions, kind of like Sam Harris or someone like that would have with a religious person. That's not because Sam Harris is too sensitive and can't handle cursing, but he's trying to have intelligent discussions that don't just turn into a shitshow with shitflinging from both sides. If someone is just saying mean things about gay people to be intentionally provocative, then that's one thing. That person is probably not trying to be civil in the first place.
FF, you are correct lol. This is actually exactly what I'm proposing here. Thanks for explaining it!
You're welcome. I don't have a problem with Joods being sensitive. Some people are going to be sensitive and that's fine. People should be accepted for who they are. I just thought it was funny that she was telling you to grow a thicker skin for not wanting to see the word asshole used 50 times in a thread or for not wanting to see people getting told to fuck themselves left and right when you just want to have an intelligent, civil discussion.
(May 2, 2018 at 6:11 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: Religious Forums was mentioned, what they do is have a section where theists/believers can post about their faith/beliefs, but atheists or people who are not believers of that faith (not necessarily atheists), can only post in those sections, if the intent is to ask questions that aren't designed to turn into a heated debate. The idea is to have something similar to what CL is talking about. Now, out of those sections, anything goes, but name calling/ad homs are considered breaking the forum rules. I always thought that was a general rule here too, you can't just go off the rails and start calling people names simply because you don't agree with what they're posting. I see nothing wrong with posting ''I think "x" religion is stupid,'' as long as you're not insulting the poster. If everyone stays topic focused, I could see a section working out okay, like CL is suggesting.
A: religion x is stupid
B: They believe in religion x
C: They are stupid
Did I miss something?
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
(May 2, 2018 at 8:36 pm)Joods Wrote: Sweetie, if I was that sensitive, I would have left the forum already. Voicing my opinions on a few things that I don't agree with is my right. As it is everyone else's right. I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to appease those who want to get their panties in a bunch. If they want a forum that limits the free speech of not only others, but themselves too, they are welcome to start their own forum with their own rules.
I've dealt with members here who have said a lot of shitty things to me. I'm still here aren't I? I'm not asking for their rights to be infringed upon, am I? I'm not asking for a safe place on these boards, am I? Nope. I take my licks like anyone. I participate in threads and I face the consequences of the replies I get. Some people simply can grow a pair or they can ignore those posts that they find insulting or they can utilize the ignore feature, as I have done on occasion.
Clearly you don't have a clue about me if you think I'm one of the most sensitive on the forums so I find your post a bit disingenuous.
Oh, and incidentally, we have rules against hate speech, trolling and flaming. If someone feels like they have had any of that done to them, they can utilize the report button and complain to the staff. Rules are a thing here. Staff can't discipline the offenders if the offended don't report the offensive posts, now can they?
CL is not asking to limit anyone's free speech (and free speech has nothing to do with these forums, only the government). People would have the choice to post in the civility section or whatever other section they want to post in.
I've already stated my point. We seem to be at an impass so there's no point in discussing this further with you.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
