I dont think so. I assume He probably has a very good reason for creating a natural world. All we can see is the here and now, which is a tiny speck in proportion to eternity and the entire universe. There's no way we can say, with our extremely limited knowledge and world view, that everything would be better off overall if God did certain things differently.

What if god never existed at all and early man concocted him from the imagination for the sake of comfort during a time of overwhelming uncertainty?

(May 17, 2018 at 10:38 am)Kit Wrote: What if god never existed at all and early man concocted him from the imagination for the sake of comfort during a time of overwhelming uncertainty?

Then yall would be right, and we would be wrong, obviously lol.

(May 17, 2018 at 10:38 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I dont think so. I assume He probably has a very good reason for creating a natural world. All we can see is the here and now, which is a tiny speck in proportion to eternity and the entire universe. There's no way we can say, with our extremely limited knowledge, that everything would be better off overall if God did certain
things differently.

However limited our knowledge is we do know that anyone capable of preventing child rape, and that has all the power and knowledge of preventing it without any cost to themselves whatsoever, and yet refuses to do so nonetheless, is extremely immoral.

Unless he's not there to do anything and any self-perceived signs of god's existence is mere wishful thinking for the sake of comfort.

It's assumed that is God both capable enough to stop it happening and knows that it is happening, Kit. So if He doesn't stop it He either doesn't care at all or He relishes it. Either He is evil or He is not compassionate.

You;re not going to make any progress with CL on this, she thinks that rapes happen for a reason, and that they;re worth it.

Just the price of entry to gods grand theme park in the sky. You;re trying to appeal to the compassion of a person who has none, or whose compassion has been utterly subverted by their religious convictions. A case example of a religious requirement for an otherwise good person to do or think a bad thing.

(May 17, 2018 at 10:42 am)Hammy Wrote:

(May 17, 2018 at 10:38 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I dont think so. I assume He probably has a very good reason for creating a natural world. All we can see is the here and now, which is a tiny speck in proportion to eternity and the entire universe. There's no way we can say, with our extremely limited knowledge, that everything would be better off overall if God did certain
things differently.

However limited our knowledge is we do know that anyone capable of preventing child rape, and that has all the power and knowledge of preventing it without any cost to themselves whatsoever, and yet refuses to do so nonetheless, is extremely immoral.

Any person, yes. And im sure Jesus would have prevented it too if He were human and a child was about to be raped in front of Him. Just as He prevented the stoning of that woman.

But for God to prevent it, it would mean supernatural devine intervention. The whole point of this world is that it is a natural world where God allows things to happen as they will. If God were to do His magic every time something bad was about to happen, or every time a person was about to use their free will for evil deeds, this wouldn't be Earth, it wouldn't be a natural world. And there wouldn't really be a difference between this life and the next, supernatural one.

I trust that since God can see everything and knows everything, and I don't/can't, that the world being this way will all make sense in the long run and will overall have a net good. We just cant see that in the here and now.

Not a perfect analogy by any means, but it's along the same concept as me taking my cats to the vet. They get extremely upset. They hate riding in the car, they hate being put inside those little carriers, they get freaked out of their minds by the vet poking them with needles and sticking thermometers up their butt. They cry and scream and get mad at me for having them go through that. They can't possibly understand why it needs to happen that way, and that it's all for the better in the long run.

Tada, it;s better in the long run for kids to get raped.  From her mouth to gods ears.

(May 17, 2018 at 10:51 am)Khemikal Wrote: You;re not going to make any progress with CL on this, she thinks that rapes happen for a reason, and that they;re worth it.

Just the price of entry to gods grand theme park in the sky.

Yes I know I'm not going to make any progress on it. This is what I mean when I say that I think she's a morally good person with some very immoral beliefs. They're not personal beliefs, of course, as Christianity in general is made up of some very immoral beliefs, and this is why I do not take it personally. At least she's a nice person aside from some of her Christian beliefs, unlike a lot of Christians.

Even if I were a theist I would not let the idea of God's motives being mysterious or the excuse of "free will" excuse such things as child rape. Hell, I would consider it an imperfection for God to even allow suffering to even be a thing. We experience pain for evolutionary reasons as a warning system to warn us from our bodies which carry our genes, which we pass on, from harm. If God is truly perfect he could give us that warning system without the pain or suffering. Or, better yet, make it impossible for us or for our bodies to even be harmed. He'd also start off with everyone in Heaven, not start off with a talking tree and a fruit and all that original sin nonsense, which supposedly condems the rest of humanity before it even existed. What an utterly immoral doctrine.

If I were a theist I would believe either one of the following (1) God is the most powerful and compassionate being but is by no means perfect or capable of intervening to preventing our suffering. He observes it and wishes he could stop it but cannot. (2) He is all powerful but either enjoys or is indifferent to our suffering. i.e. he is evil or unfeeling.

"Mysterious ways" or "but free will" definitely don't cut it. None of that shit is worth the pain many individuals suffer and suffer completely unnecessarily if God is truly able to stop it.