(May 29, 2018 at 10:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No, I'm thinking God would have taken form as one of their own species on their own planet, and had a different name, and didn't die on a cross. But the basis of the story would be the same: That this was considered "God's son" who came to show them the way and spread the same message. He performed miracles while he was there, started the new religion teaching them to love each other, and then was persecuted and sentenced to die a very horrible death for their sins. He soon rose from the dead and stayed with them for a while longer before heading off to Heaven. 

This religion has all the same fundamental principles as Christianity. Meaning they believe in the trinity (father, son, holy spirit), they do have a holy book much like the bible, consisting of writing before this Jesus character came, the story of while he was there which would be practically like the gospels, and further writing after he left. It would have very similar stories with the same principles (especially the story of their Jesus character, as I said above would be practically the same except on their planet) but wouldn't be "word for word" the same, as in like just a copy. And it wouldn't be called "bible" since they speak in a different language lol. They believe in salvation, believe in Heaven and Hell, and their views on morality revolve around love of God and love of neighbor, just like Christianity. They would have different denominations as well, but the basic fundamental tenets would be the exact same throughout, and would be the same as Christianity.

Imagine if that was the predominant belief system in their planet, how would you react?

Question. How would we know that it was the same god?

(May 29, 2018 at 11:09 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(May 29, 2018 at 10:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No, I'm thinking God would have taken form as one of their own species on their own planet, and had a different name, and didn't die on a cross. But the basis of the story would be the same: That this was considered "God's son" who came to show them the way and spread the same message. He performed miracles while he was there, started the new religion teaching them to love each other, and then was persecuted and sentenced to die a very horrible death for their sins. He soon rose from the dead and stayed with them for a while longer before heading off to Heaven. 

This religion has all the same fundamental principles as Christianity. Meaning they believe in the trinity (father, son, holy spirit), they do have a holy book much like the bible, consisting of writing before this Jesus character came, the story of while he was there which would be practically like the gospels, and further writing after he left. It would have very similar stories with the same principles (especially the story of their Jesus character, as I said above would be practically the same except on their planet) but wouldn't be "word for word" the same, as in like just a copy. And it wouldn't be called "bible" since they speak in a different language lol. They believe in salvation, believe in Heaven and Hell, and their views on morality revolve around love of God and love of neighbor, just like Christianity. They would have different denominations as well, but the basic fundamental tenets would be the exact same throughout, and would be the same as Christianity.

Imagine if that was the predominant belief system in their planet, how would you react?

Question. How would we know that it was the same god?

We would know only what they told us, which would be the above.

(May 29, 2018 at 10:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(May 28, 2018 at 10:45 pm)Whateverist Wrote: If you mean they actually bring their own copy of the bible which is word for word the same as ours and worship a man named Jesus believed by them to have been born about 2,000 years ago, not on their planet, but in the region currently known as Israel on our planet .. well .. in that case I'd look around for the person who might be pranking me.

But if they merely believed in a God something like the Christian god, that would just lead me to believe their minds work something like our's, an instance of coevolution across worlds.

No, I'm thinking God would have taken form as one of their own species on their own planet, and had a different name, and didn't die on a cross. But the basis of the story would be the same: That this was considered "God's son" who came to show them the way and spread the same message. He performed miracles while he was there, started the new religion teaching them to love each other, and then was persecuted and sentenced to die a very horrible death for their sins. He soon rose from the dead and stayed with them for a while longer before heading off to Heaven. 

This religion has all the same fundamental principles as Christianity. Meaning they believe in the trinity (father, son, holy spirit), they do have a holy book much like the bible, consisting of writing before this Jesus character came, the story of while he was there which would be practically like the gospels, and further writing after he left. It would have very similar stories with the same principles (especially the story of their Jesus character, as I said above would be practically the same except on their planet) but wouldn't be "word for word" the same, as in like just a copy. And it wouldn't be called "bible" since they speak in a different language lol. They believe in salvation, believe in Heaven and Hell, and their views on morality revolve around love of God and love of neighbor, just like Christianity. They would have different denominations as well, but the basic fundamental tenets would be the exact same throughout, and would be the same as Christianity.

Imagine if that was the predominant belief system in their planet, how would you react?

Now that you start weakening the analogy, you also weaken it's persuasiveness. The more you scale back on the particulars, the more you create a space for things like convergent evolution. I have to ask, additionally, why you would take that step. Perhaps it's because even you don't have much interest in the answers to your hypothetical. Mahatma Ghandi has endorsed Christianity as a compatible belief, Krishnamurti I believe was even a Christian for a period, albeit a strange one [him or another swami, I forget who], and even the tantric yoga proponent Little Rik has said that he is also Christian. Just what exactly are the core elements of Christianity? You seem to be simply suggesting that the core elements of Christianity are what you believe them to be, regardless of whether that's justified or not. Proponents of a sort of universalism might well disagree and incorporate such "holy books" as the Aquarian Gospel, which, among other things, endorses reincarnation. This is beginning to suggest a similar flaw to your hypothetical as that which undercuts Pascal's wager. Your hypothetical starts looking less like a hypothetical than it is simply a disguised version of the question, "What if my God is true?" Something I find a great deal more mundane and plebian.

An interesting question, is, which religion structure on earth is suited for universal guidance such that it applies for all times, in all places, in all circumstances, and even different planets with beings similar to us.

(May 29, 2018 at 10:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(May 28, 2018 at 10:45 pm)Whateverist Wrote: If you mean they actually bring their own copy of the bible which is word for word the same as ours and worship a man named Jesus believed by them to have been born about 2,000 years ago, not on their planet, but in the region currently known as Israel on our planet .. well .. in that case I'd look around for the person who might be pranking me.

But if they merely believed in a God something like the Christian god, that would just lead me to believe their minds work something like our's, an instance of coevolution across worlds.

No, I'm thinking God would have taken form as one of their own species on their own planet, and had a different name, and didn't die on a cross. But the basis of the story would be the same: That this was considered "God's son" who came to show them the way and spread the same message. He performed miracles while he was there, started the new religion teaching them to love each other, and then was persecuted and sentenced to die a very horrible death for their sins. He soon rose from the dead and stayed with them for a while longer before heading off to Heaven. 

This religion has all the same fundamental principles as Christianity. Meaning they believe in the trinity (father, son, holy spirit), they do have a holy book much like the bible, consisting of writing before this Jesus character came, the story of while he was there which would be practically like the gospels, and further writing after he left. It would have very similar stories with the same principles (especially the story of their Jesus character, as I said above would be practically the same except on their planet) but wouldn't be "word for word" the same, as in like just a copy. And it wouldn't be called "bible" since they speak in a different language lol. They believe in salvation, believe in Heaven and Hell, and their views on morality revolve around love of God and love of neighbor, just like Christianity. They would have different denominations as well, but the basic fundamental tenets would be the exact same throughout, and would be the same as Christianity.

Imagine if that was the predominant belief system in their planet, how would you react?

Then I would assume their mode of consciousness was much like our own, complete with a tendency to project ‘out there’ products of consciousness that are actually
‘on board’.

(May 29, 2018 at 11:37 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(May 29, 2018 at 10:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No, I'm thinking God would have taken form as one of their own species on their own planet, and had a different name, and didn't die on a cross. But the basis of the story would be the same: That this was considered "God's son" who came to show them the way and spread the same message. He performed miracles while he was there, started the new religion teaching them to love each other, and then was persecuted and sentenced to die a very horrible death for their sins. He soon rose from the dead and stayed with them for a while longer before heading off to Heaven. 

This religion has all the same fundamental principles as Christianity. Meaning they believe in the trinity (father, son, holy spirit), they do have a holy book much like the bible, consisting of writing before this Jesus character came, the story of while he was there which would be practically like the gospels, and further writing after he left. It would have very similar stories with the same principles (especially the story of their Jesus character, as I said above would be practically the same except on their planet) but wouldn't be "word for word" the same, as in like just a copy. And it wouldn't be called "bible" since they speak in a different language lol. They believe in salvation, believe in Heaven and Hell, and their views on morality revolve around love of God and love of neighbor, just like Christianity. They would have different denominations as well, but the basic fundamental tenets would be the exact same throughout, and would be the same as Christianity.

Imagine if that was the predominant belief system in their planet, how would you react?

Then I would assume their mode of consciousness was much like our own, complete with a tendency to project ‘out there’ products of consciousness that are actually
‘on board’.

You wouldn't find it a staggering coincidence that their story would be the same as ours? IE: the "son of God" becoming one of them, bringing a new faith (which is the same one we have), dying a horrible death for their sins, rising from the dead, the concept of the trinity as the father, son, and holy spirit, the belief in salvation, etc etc?

(May 29, 2018 at 11:45 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You wouldn't find it a staggering coincidence that their story would be the same as ours? IE: the "son of God" becoming one of them, bringing a new faith (which is the same one we have), dying a horrible death for their sins, rising from the dead, the concept of the trinity as the father, son, and holy spirit, the belief in salvation, etc etc?

How staggering depends on how many other alien religions exist. It's not like christianity is the only human religion after all. And christianity shares a lot of similarities with other human religions.

You'd also have to compare other fairy tales. For example, do the aliens tell their children about a magical figure that rewards them with presents once a year if they are good and nothing if they have been bad? Or that if they hide their baby scales under their equivalent of a pillow when they fall out do they get some alien currency?

(May 29, 2018 at 11:45 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(May 29, 2018 at 11:37 am)Whateverist Wrote: Then I would assume their mode of consciousness was much like our own, complete with a tendency to project ‘out there’ products of consciousness that are actually
‘on board’.

You wouldn't find it a staggering coincidence that their story would be the same as ours? IE: the "son of God" becoming one of them, bringing a new faith (which is the same one we have), dying a horrible death for their sins, rising from the dead, the concept of the trinity as the father, son, and holy spirit, the belief in salvation, etc etc?

No that is already the case here across different cultures. Joeseph Campbell wrote a book titled “TheHeroWith A Thousand Faces” which looked at similarities between the legendary figures in their oldest stories. At least here on earth we expect to find common themes. I don’t know what we might find across planets But if we did find them then coevolution would be my hunch. It would make wonder what -if any- aspects of our consciousness may be necessary for a race that makes it into space.

(May 29, 2018 at 11:55 am)Whateverist Wrote: But if we did find them then coevolution would be my hunch.

Just as an aside because it's twice now that you used it, but you actually mean convergent evolution. Co-evolution would be like predator and prey in an arms race where the evolution of one species changes the selection pressure on another species. Convergent evolution is when a similar solution is arrived at independently.

Easy to get them confused.

(May 28, 2018 at 9:21 pm)Shell B Wrote: They’re aliens showing up and talking about Christianity. Of course you would be fazed.

How about a Christian showing up to give the aliens the good news?
An absolute stunner from Harry Harrison: The Streets of Ashkelon.

As for the scenario described in the OP. It looks to me as nothing more than a very elaborate rewording of the old 'if God were proved to exist would you believe'?
Well yes, I would have to. Would I be compelled to worship the contemptible bastard?

Fuck no!