Hmm... then it's just a label thing. It could have no provable traces, but you will stay say it's with them.

Just for the record: some diseases (like M.S) destroy the neorons responsible for the transmitting of mood signals in the brain; thus causing depression.
It is experienced by MS patients; that's why they take anti-deppressants too with their medications to counter the effect.. Neurons never get replaced; unlike normal cells.

DMTs for example are well known to cause depression as a side effect. So taking examples other than MS, the condition has organic origins too.

A close family friend who was like a second dad to me killed himself with a shotgun a few years ago. He was older, in declining health and feeling depressed. His daughter, also a close friend, found him the next day, which was also her birthday.
I'm certain he did it on impulse. He was alone at home, a gun was handy, he grabbed it and made a mistake that can't be undone.
Of course there's no way to know for sure but I also believe if someone were there with him that evening, he wouldn't have shot himself.

I'm on the fence on the assisted suicide issue. For people who are terminally ill, in pain, and no hope or chance of improvement or recovery, it should be an option but only done if the patient is entirely lucid and able to reach this decision independently.

There's a lot of grey area, though. What about patients in the US who still have a few good years left but are racking up huge medical bills and don't want to be a financial burden so they decide to go sooner rather than later? Until we can be sure situations like this won't happen, I'll remain on the fence on this issue.

-Teresa

(June 4, 2018 at 11:42 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I believe it should be carried on only when illness is too severe that the patient is considered already ruined and doomed.

Have an ischemic stroke as an example that comes with partial or full paralysis. The person is already dead if the stroke happens in a crucial spot in the brain.
I would say it should be a choice the person does when they're alive before they lose ability to speak or something far more terrible occurs.

That would be no extreme measure to be taken to keep the person alive, this I  agree with, they want to go naturally, my parents both told me they did not want extreme measures taken to keep them alive.

GC

(June 5, 2018 at 2:36 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(June 4, 2018 at 11:42 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I believe it should be carried on only when illness is too severe that the patient is considered already ruined and doomed.

Have an ischemic stroke as an example that comes with partial or full paralysis. The person is already dead if the stroke happens in a crucial spot in the brain.
I would say it should be a choice the pTerson does when they're alive before they lose ability to speak or something far more terrible occurs.

That would be no extreme measure to be taken to keep the person alive, this I  agree with, they want to go naturally, my parents both told me they did not want extreme measures taken to keep them alive.

GC

To be honest, I don't know if it's correct to say that "keeping a dead person breathing for a little more, with a big economical burden in return", is considered "saving a life".

Your parents had a point. It's like your body wants to die; but somebody is trying so hard to bring it back.

(June 5, 2018 at 8:14 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(June 5, 2018 at 2:36 am)Godscreated Wrote: That would be no extreme measure to be taken to keep the person alive, this I  agree with, they want to go naturally, my parents both told me they did not want extreme measures taken to keep them alive.

GC

To be honest, I don't know if it's correct to say that "keeping a dead person breathing for a little more, with a big economical burden in return", is considered "saving a life".

Your parents had a point. It's like your body wants to die; but somebody is trying so hard to bring it back.

 That and they did not want their family to have to watch such suffering, they were always thinking of others.

GC

As usual the theists frame the debate in the most simplistic, all or nothing way, "Is all suicide evil, or is all suicide okay? Given only those two choices I would err on the side of letting people make their own decision based on their perception of what the future holds for them. Are there times when suicide is the poor choice? Sure, and if one has the opportunity to help someone make what, in the long run, would be a better choice, all too the good. Are there times when people decide that suicide is their best option, also sure. It isn't even hard to imagine one; tired, old, alone, ill, in constant pain with no hope of a future without that pain. Add in America's health care system which is deliberately designed to suck every possible bit of wealth out of you before letting you die, wealth that could easily benefit people (kids or grandkids) that you deeply love. People who are also suffering the agonizing passage of time as they watch you struggle toward the inevitable conclusion. What would be a more noble, more moral, choice than a quick, quiet exit?

And if there is a god out there who thinks that is somehow a sin, punishable by eternal damnation, torturing and suffering, (mull that over for a minute) than that is a god not worth worshiping.

(June 4, 2018 at 8:39 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Just for the record: some diseases (like M.S) destroy the neorons responsible for the transmitting of mood signals in the brain; thus causing depression.
It is experienced by MS patients; that's why they take anti-deppressants too with their medications to counter the effect.. Neurons never get replaced; unlike normal cells.

DMTs for example are well known to cause depression as a side effect. So taking examples other than MS, the condition has organic origins too.

MK's responses in this thread are another reason I hate how religion distorts reality. But this isn't just Islam, but religion worldwide. Superstition and deity belief lead the follower to buy very horrible stories that are nothing but fiction. It is why sick crap like the Salem Witch Hunts happened. It is why con artists like Benny Hinn get away with ripping off gullible followers. But the worst part is that can make worse mental illness with beliefs like demons and evil spirits and cause the mentally ill to harm themselves and or others. 

There are no evil spirits manipulating the neurons in one's brain. There are only natural psychological and electro/chemical functions that can be out of whack because of family genes, environmental conditions, possible abuse, addictions, neurological. BUT there is no fictional villain pulling our strings. 

The real help for mental illness are psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors and neurology, and even mere support groups and family and friends who accept it as natural causes without religion or superstitions.

(June 16, 2018 at 7:40 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 4, 2018 at 8:39 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Just for the record: some diseases (like M.S) destroy the neorons responsible for the transmitting of mood signals in the brain; thus causing depression.
It is experienced by MS patients; that's why they take anti-deppressants too with their medications to counter the effect.. Neurons never get replaced; unlike normal cells.

DMTs for example are well known to cause depression as a side effect. So taking examples other than MS, the condition has organic origins too.

MK's responses in this thread are another reason I hate how religion distorts reality. But this isn't just Islam, but religion worldwide. Superstition and deity belief lead the follower to buy very horrible stories that are nothing but fiction. It is why sick crap like the Salem Witch Hunts happened. It is why con artists like Benny Hinn get away with ripping off gullible followers. But the worst part is that can make worse mental illness with beliefs like demons and evil spirits and cause the mentally ill to harm themselves and or others. 

There are no evil spirits manipulating the neurons in one's brain. There are only natural psychological and electro/chemical functions that can be out of whack because of family genes, environmental conditions, possible abuse, addictions, neurological. BUT there is no fictional villain pulling our strings. 

The real help for mental illness are psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors and neurology, and even mere support groups and family and friends who accept it as natural causes without religion or superstitions.

I think religious rituals and the belief in God can do gigantic transitions in the mental state of the patient.

Look at this article:

https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.com/2...ve-in-god/

The author has M.S and heart disease, quoting her:

Quote:However, believing in God strengthens me, gives me hope today and beyond, and fortifies my purpose here on earth.

Our bodies are not perfect. They are made to suffer, and according to the Quran this is what humans would suffer from outside of paradise:

Quote:Sura 20, The Quran:
Sahih International

(118) Indeed, it is [promised] for you not to be hungry therein or be unclothed.
(119) And indeed, you will not be thirsty therein or be hot from the sun."

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.
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(123) [ Allah ] said, "Descend from Paradise - all, [your descendants] being enemies to one another. And if there should come to you guidance from Me - then whoever follows My guidance will neither go astray [in the world] nor suffer [in the Hereafter].

Outside of paradise, we become hungry, we become unclothed and thirsty, sick, tired, we die, we decay.
In other words; according to my belief this is the nature of earth, this is the will of God, and there is a place where non of these sicknesses will even exist anymore.

But being outside of paradise is deadly to us. So it's better for us to make our quality of life better, make it better on the sick too, our bodies are weak.