It's quite simple, we over all believe with our mouths and for convenience of peace in this world and delusional thinking we are safe in the next.

If we truly believed in God and the last day,  if we truly believed in that being who are life should be devoted to, we would have devoted our lives to him with enough devotion to not have equated idols to God to the extent we disobey God to obey them.


The Quran for example says "therefore if you dispute regarding a matter so refer it to God and the Messenger if you believe in God and the last day" (4:59)and this pertained to what was obedience to God, and in that regard, it's not about whether we want to play basketball or soccer but matters of safety and fear, and regarding those who believe with their mouths and don't seek to perceive understand "and when a matter of safety or fear come to them, they spread it abroad, and had they referred it to the Messenger and (had they..) to those who possess the Authority from them, they would have known those who can perceive from them" and elsewhere said "therefore ask the family of the reminder if you do not know."

It takes a while to see it, but, it's a sad reality that God is to be searched with all our hearts yet many or even most people settle to deceive themselves "And from humans are those who say they believe in God and the last day, and they at all are not believers" 

"They desire to deceive God while (in reality) they deceive themselves."




God and morality is not such that it simply exists because of him, it's interlinked in that degree of goodness, is to degree of recognition of God. And truly recognition of God is a state, it's belief by choice, which actions can help, good actions help direct to that, but ultimately, it comes down to one good deed and one evil deed,   the good deed is to love sincerity to God to the extent we accept his pathways and doors to submitting to him and appreciating those guides as gifts from God, while the evil deed is mixing everything up, seeking to make ambiguous what is clear, and confuse people and ourselves- out of love of God and the goodness in his creation, all good deeds stems and out jealousy towards his chosen and their followers, all evil stems.

To equate evil with good is to have forsaken good, and used good for the sake of evil.

You know that prohibition against alcohol, MK?   I don't think it is helping in your case.

Jefferson Starship & red Leb. Oh what fabulous shite we would spout.

Religions can't agree because everybody makes up their own.

^Bingo lolly.

Boru

The fact is that all religions are in agreement. They all want the same things. Complete obedience and loyalty from the sheep and their money. They would like it very much if everyone was a member of their particular cult. Only the dumb sheep think that there's such things as eternal life and heavens and hell. That's all there is.

(July 3, 2018 at 5:50 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You know that prohibition against alcohol, MK?   I don't think it is helping in your case.

But take a moment to wonder what would happen if MK actually started drinking alcohol.

(July 3, 2018 at 5:48 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It's quite simple, we over all believe with our mouths and for convenience of peace in this world and delusional thinking we are safe in the next.

If we truly believed in God and the last day,  if we truly believed in that being who are life should be devoted to, we would have devoted our lives to him with enough devotion to not have equated idols to God to the extent we disobey God to obey them.


The Quran for example says "therefore if you dispute regarding a matter so refer it to God and the Messenger if you believe in God and the last day" (4:59)and this pertained to what was obedience to God, and in that regard, it's not about whether we want to play basketball or soccer but matters of safety and fear, and regarding those who believe with their mouths and don't seek to perceive understand "and when a matter of safety or fear come to them, they spread it abroad, and had they referred it to the Messenger and (had they..) to those who possess the Authority from them, they would have known those who can perceive from them" and elsewhere said "therefore ask the family of the reminder if you do not know."

It takes a while to see it, but, it's a sad reality that God is to be searched with all our hearts yet many or even most people settle to deceive themselves "And from humans are those who say they believe in God and the last day, and they at all are not believers" 

"They desire to deceive God while (in reality) they deceive themselves."




God and morality is not such that it simply exists because of him, it's interlinked in that degree of goodness, is to degree of recognition of God. And truly recognition of God is a state, it's belief by choice, which actions can help, good actions help direct to that, but ultimately, it comes down to one good deed and one evil deed,   the good deed is to love sincerity to God to the extent we accept his pathways and doors to submitting to him and appreciating those guides as gifts from God, while the evil deed is mixing everything up, seeking to make ambiguous what is clear, and confuse people and ourselves-  out of love of God and the goodness in his creation, all good deeds stems and out jealousy towards his chosen and their followers, all evil stems.

To equate evil with good is to have forsaken good, and used good for the sake of evil.

Everywhere you use the word "God" reread this and replace it with "Harry Potter" and ask if what you just typed still makes sense.

(July 3, 2018 at 7:19 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Religions can't agree because everybody makes up their own.

Yeah, this is it, exactly.

People start with a base religion and then modify it until it perfectly meets their own, personal beliefs. Even people at the highest levels of the most dominant religions do this. Why is there a need to elect a pope? Shouldn't there be a clear message from on high? Why must it degrade into politics?

What do you say to that, MK?

This is one of many smoking guns which alert a thinking person to realize that all dogmatic religion is crap. The whole value of religion is that it is the TRUTH!!! But even the highest practitioners of a single religion - those who have devoted their entire lives to it - cannot agree on what that TRUTH is! Now, imagine practitioners of different religions trying to agree on TRUTH.

You know what would really get my attention as an atheist? Millions or billions of theists across cultures all saying the same thing. That would get my attention because it would be evidence that wrong or right, an idea or source of knowledge convinced a majority of people to get in lock-step with it. I might still not agree with it but it would get my attention and cause me to take it seriously.

MK, you have revealed (IMO) one of the most obvious dis-qualifiers of organized religion. If your religion is what you say it is, it should be obvious to ALL people. There shouldn't be any room for disagreement. If the Quran or the Bible or the Torah are Holy books either written directly by God or inspired by him, it should be perfect.

There is no need to "test" anybody for faith or any such nonsense because under your scenario, everyone was created by God. Why would he need to test anyone? He already knows at the time he created them whether or not they will pass or fail.

Sorry, but the disagreement among the religious is strong evidence that religious dogma is crap. Alternatively, it is evidence that few human beings can understand it. In that case, what good is it? What does it say about God who would design a system few of his creations could understand?

The religious can not agree for the same reason that no one can agree what a Unicorn's horn is made out of, which shade of Crayola pink crayon best matches the skin tone of a pink elephant, who is the tallest leprechaun alive today, or which planet the aliens stored at Area 51 are from.