(July 17, 2018 at 8:17 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Putin's investment has paid off beyond his wildest wet dreams. A bit of money to some trolls of the best black hat hackers in the world and he gets the collapse of NATO and the sycophancy of an American President.

FTFY. Credit where credit is due. I, for one, having spent 30+ years working in defense, despise it with a burn that is likely to cause me an ulcer if I think about it too much.   I'd pay money to see Donnie hit square in the face with a pick axe swung by a member of the armed services. That's actually too good a demise for him.  SMH

(July 17, 2018 at 8:24 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(July 17, 2018 at 8:17 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Putin's investment has paid off beyond his wildest wet dreams. A bit of money to some trolls of the best black hat hackers in the world and he gets the collapse of NATO and the sycophancy of an American President.

FTFY. Credit where credit is due. I, for one, having spent 30+ years working in defense, despise it with a burn that is likely to cause me an ulcer if I think about it too much.   I'd pay money to see Donnie hit square in the face with a pick axe swung by a member of the armed services. That's actually too good a demise for him.  SMH

Pretty sure drawing and quartering would be the traditional reward for treason.  I'd hope for weak horses only barely strong enough to get it done .. after much effort.

I said I don't know because I took the question to be "is he a traitor on purpose." He think he does treasonous things, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if he was too stupid to know what he's doing.

He knows what he's doing. He's always known. He's an asshole and he always will be. He doesn't care about this country. He cares about his narcissistic self and how he can best be served.

Why was the question asking if we thought Donald Drumpf was a traitor, yet didn't give an option for the punitive measures that being a Traitor include?

*Yes, he is a traitor. He should be tried and imprisoned or hanged for the highest, most treasonousyTreason against the United States in this countries history! Now thAT would be an actual record he has set.

I don't know if the concept of a "traitor" even applies to Trump. I doubt he ever had any loyalties to anyone but himself so there may be nobody for him to betray.

Quote:"Donald Trump's press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of 'high crimes & misdemeanors.' It was nothing short of treasonous," Former Intel Chief John Brennan, a frequent critic of Trump who served as CIA chief from 2013 through January 2017, tweeted during the event. "Not only were Trump's comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???"

Looks like we aren't the only ones who see treason. @ShellB what do you think about how he said not only was trump "imbecilic" but also wholly in the pocket of Putin?
The (former) intelligence community thinks he's dumb aNd a Putin foreign agent.

I can't be sure that Trump's behaviour meets the definition of treason set out in Article III, Section 3 of the US Constitution:

Constitution of the United States, Article III, Section 3 Wrote:Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Honestly, the way I see it, Russia is more of a rival whose policies are opposed to what we're supposed to strive for than an actual enemy at this point.

That said, well, this reminds me of The Manchurian Candidate; at one point in the film, one of Senator Iselin's rivals says “If John Iselin were a paid Soviet agent, he could not do more to harm this country than he is doing now." This was a nod to a real life-editorial which said much the same thing about Senator Joe McCarthy that inspired the original novel. It's the same way I feel about Trump and the treason question. Admittedly, it's more in the "gangster who's going from violent to psychopath just asking to get whacked" way than overt treason, but still.





If there's an Illuminati, not only is Trump a part of it, but he's the Joe Pesci in that particular dynamic.

Seriously, I wish I could vote for both Options 1 and 3 simultaneously.

(July 17, 2018 at 11:08 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: I don't know if the concept of a "traitor" even applies to Trump. I doubt he ever had any loyalties to anyone but himself so there may be nobody for him to betray.

I doubt “not having any loyalty” is an acceptable mitigating factor. The whole reason why treason is a crime is precisely to deter those who have no loyalty from aiding the enemy.

---

(July 17, 2018 at 9:13 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(July 17, 2018 at 8:24 pm)Fireball Wrote: FTFY. Credit where credit is due. I, for one, having spent 30+ years working in defense, despise it with a burn that is likely to cause me an ulcer if I think about it too much.   I'd pay money to see Donnie hit square in the face with a pick axe swung by a member of the armed services. That's actually too good a demise for him.  SMH

Pretty sure drawing and quartering would be the traditional reward for treason.  I'd hope for weak horses only barely strong enough to get it done .. after much effort.

Actually, to make you feel better, horses are not really strong enough to actually tear the limbs off of an adult human, as oppose to just dislocating and ruining the joints, without a running start. There are gruesome historic accounts of inexperienced executioners who tried for hours to drive the team of 4 horses to greater effort, all to no avail.

---

(July 17, 2018 at 7:16 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Benedict Arnold actually served the country well for a time before he betrayed it.

Trevor Noah....