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RE: If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?
August 8, 2018 at 2:39 pm
On the subject of "it's immoral because my church tells me so" discussed earlier.
Quote:John S. Grabowski, director of moral theology at Catholic University, acknowledged “a disconnect between official church teaching and Catholics’practice.” In interviews, Catholic couples who have undergone IVF said they felt a successful birth had been blessed by God or was otherwise “meant to be.”
From <https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/how-religion-is-coming-to-terms-with-modern-fertility-methods/?utm_term=.0577a7e440ed>
Catholics have no problem going against their church teachings when they feel the need. Apparently they just don't feel the need when it comes to countless deaths in Africa.
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RE: If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?
August 8, 2018 at 2:40 pm
(August 8, 2018 at 2:32 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (August 8, 2018 at 2:29 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I'm not.
Is your disturbance some additional moral issue you have because it involves a non human species?
Or is it that you think the government is pushing women to get abortions to make more organs/tissues available?
I believe that anything that could create a profit motive for human organs is highly problematic, particularly the organs of aborted human beings.
They've been collecting fetal tissues for years and it hasn't been problematic yet. Well, maybe problematic for some, but that has more to do with the abortion itself than the tissue procurement and use. Using the "profit" angle is a dodge.
There are laws in place that prohibit any profit from procurement.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?
August 8, 2018 at 2:48 pm
(August 8, 2018 at 1:45 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: (August 8, 2018 at 1:21 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Yes, unless he or she gave consent prior to their demise.
Okay, how about things that can't consent. Do you object to a family deciding whether the organs of a person in a permanently vegetative state are donated or not?
I would say that family members would have some degree of authority over how the remains of relatives are disposed. I would be concerned about the specific circumstances of someone in a vegetative state depending on whether artificial means are being used to forestall death.
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RE: If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?
August 8, 2018 at 2:54 pm
(August 8, 2018 at 2:48 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (August 8, 2018 at 1:45 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Okay, how about things that can't consent. Do you object to a family deciding whether the organs of a person in a permanently vegetative state are donated or not?
I would say that family members would have some degree of authority over how the remains of relatives are disposed. I would be concerned about the specific circumstances of someone in a vegetative state depending on whether artificial means are being used to forestall death.
So, then, if a woman consents to having her fetal tissue disposed of or used in whatever manner the clinic desires, do you still have an objection to it?
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RE: If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?
August 8, 2018 at 3:18 pm
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2018 at 3:18 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(August 8, 2018 at 2:54 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: (August 8, 2018 at 2:48 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I would say that family members would have some degree of authority over how the remains of relatives are disposed. I would be concerned about the specific circumstances of someone in a vegetative state depending on whether artificial means are being used to forestall death.
So, then, if a woman consents to having her fetal tissue disposed of or used in whatever manner the clinic desires, do you still have an objection to it?
Consent after an already immoral act does not make it moral.
<insert profound quote here>
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RE: If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?
August 8, 2018 at 3:20 pm
(August 8, 2018 at 3:18 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (August 8, 2018 at 2:54 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: So, then, if a woman consents to having her fetal tissue disposed of or used in whatever manner the clinic desires, do you still have an objection to it?
Consent after an already immoral act does not make it moral.
So in other words, your concern about the use of fetal tissue in experiments with mice stems from an objection to abortion and not any consent garbage, no?
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RE: If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?
August 8, 2018 at 3:20 pm
Would you call that the fruit of the poisoned tree....or drinking from the cup of bitter water? 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?
August 8, 2018 at 3:34 pm
I'm not sure if any pro-lifer has addressed this yet:
Does the fact that giving birth runs a higher risk of death for the mother than an abortion concern you? Is forcing the mother to risk her life in this way justified?
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RE: If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?
August 8, 2018 at 3:39 pm
(August 8, 2018 at 3:20 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: (August 8, 2018 at 3:18 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Consent after an already immoral act does not make it moral.
So in other words, your concern about the use of fetal tissue in experiments with mice stems from an objection to abortion and not any consent garbage, no?
Why can't it be both? I thought by posting the article about harvesting organs to see if there could some concern among pro-choice people that some types of abortions or abortion related actions are wrong, as a mirror image to how some pro-life people would be willing to make exceptions for rape and incest.
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RE: If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?
August 8, 2018 at 3:48 pm
(August 8, 2018 at 3:34 pm)robvalue Wrote: I'm not sure if any pro-lifer has addressed this yet:
Does the fact that giving birth runs a higher risk of death for the mother than an abortion concern you? Is forcing the mother to risk her life in this way justified?
You are more likely to be hit by a car on the way there. Also the mortality rates for the little human is of more of a concern.
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