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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 14, 2018 at 12:05 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2018 at 12:29 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(August 14, 2018 at 12:01 pm)alpha male Wrote: (August 14, 2018 at 9:25 am)Jehanne Wrote: This morning at 10 AM CDT, the State of Nebraska is set to execute Carey Dean Moore, who says that he is "ready to die". His victims' families approve of his upcoming execution. But, when Mr. Moore dies a (hopefully) peaceful death, he will cease to exist, and hence, no longer suffer the punishments of prison. In fact, if he experiences what I experienced a few days ago when I fainted while on my feet due to a brief illness (probably, mono), he will never even experience death. Instead, he will go to sleep and then die.
In this sense, how can the death penalty be said to be "punishment"; isn't it just better to leave Mr. Moore in prison for the rest of his life if you wish to see him be punished for his heinous crimes? Instead, Mr. Moore gets to end his life on the World stage, on the front pages of major newspapers across the Globe.
Then why do most all of them keep appealing and delaying the execution?
Yeah, Christian charity says let them writhe before the inevitable.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 14, 2018 at 12:11 pm
The non-revenge arguments I can see for the death penalty are the financial burden on society, the potential risk they pose while still alive, and the jail space they take up that has a knock-on effect. I do agree that being killed is somewhat getting off lightly, I'd rather be killed than spend my life in jail anyday.
I used to consider those arguments somewhat persuasive, but I don't anymore. I'm on the side of being against it now. I still think there are complex issues at play though.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 14, 2018 at 12:16 pm
(August 14, 2018 at 12:11 pm)robvalue Wrote: The non-revenge arguments I can see for the death penalty are the financial burden on society, the potential risk they pose while still alive, and the jail space they take up that has a knock-on effect. I do agree that being killed is somewhat getting off lightly, I'd rather be killed than spend my life in jail anyday.
I used to consider those arguments somewhat persuasive, but I don't anymore. I'm on the side of being against it now. I still think there are complex issues at play though.
It would be nice if there was a magic/polygraph ball that would insure the Hitler/Bundy sickos were the only we'd subject the death sentence to. But I have personally talked to a man released from death row, and another who was in prison accused of killing another prisoner, who later got that sentence moved to life. Both of them were white by the way.
It isn't just the cost for me, but the inequity that more often than not, minorities are far more likely to be railroaded by the system, not to mention there is not enough funding for public defenders to defend the poor.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 14, 2018 at 12:29 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2018 at 12:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 14, 2018 at 12:11 pm)robvalue Wrote: The non-revenge arguments I can see for the death penalty are the financial burden on society, the potential risk they pose while still alive, and the jail space they take up that has a knock-on effect. I do agree that being killed is somewhat getting off lightly, I'd rather be killed than spend my life in jail anyday.
I used to consider those arguments somewhat persuasive, but I don't anymore. I'm on the side of being against it now. I still think there are complex issues at play though. Costs more to kill them than to jail them, if we were worried about the risk they pose to fellow inmates we wouldn't be killing inmates, and jails are hella profitable per sq foot - especially when they're wildly over cap.
I know, I know..just a rejoinder.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 14, 2018 at 12:31 pm
(August 14, 2018 at 12:01 pm)alpha male Wrote: Then why do most all of them keep appealing and delaying the execution?
For some, the fear of death trumps all other fears. Others, like the last guy executed in Oregon, leave appeals unused.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 14, 2018 at 12:57 pm
We're not supposed to derive joy from the pain of others. That's what bad people do. So if you capture someone worthy of the death penalty, the best thing to do is just put him or her down quickly, dispose of the body, and move on. Granted the "eye for an eye" tactic makes some sense and is very tempting. Inflict an equal amount of pain on someone for their crime. Still, we should be better than that.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 14, 2018 at 12:59 pm
(August 14, 2018 at 9:28 am)Cyberman Wrote: The death penalty: teaching people a lesson they'll never remember.
I think it prevent him reoffending.
However many MANY people who were innocent have been executed.
So there's that
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 14, 2018 at 1:07 pm
(August 14, 2018 at 12:31 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: (August 14, 2018 at 12:01 pm)alpha male Wrote: Then why do most all of them keep appealing and delaying the execution?
For some, the fear of death trumps all other fears. Others, like the last guy executed in Oregon, leave appeals unused.
In many states Appeal is automatic with death sentences.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 14, 2018 at 1:12 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2018 at 1:14 pm by Jehanne.)
(August 14, 2018 at 12:01 pm)alpha male Wrote: (August 14, 2018 at 9:25 am)Jehanne Wrote: This morning at 10 AM CDT, the State of Nebraska is set to execute Carey Dean Moore, who says that he is "ready to die". His victims' families approve of his upcoming execution. But, when Mr. Moore dies a (hopefully) peaceful death, he will cease to exist, and hence, no longer suffer the punishments of prison. In fact, if he experiences what I experienced a few days ago when I fainted while on my feet due to a brief illness (probably, mono), he will never even experience death. Instead, he will go to sleep and then die.
In this sense, how can the death penalty be said to be "punishment"; isn't it just better to leave Mr. Moore in prison for the rest of his life if you wish to see him be punished for his heinous crimes? Instead, Mr. Moore gets to end his life on the World stage, on the front pages of major newspapers across the Globe.
Then why do most all of them keep appealing and delaying the execution?
Most of them wish to live, but once they are dead, then, there is no punishment. In fact, most death row prisoners end their lives on the gurney in a dignified, even stately, manner.
(August 14, 2018 at 12:00 pm)Brian37 Wrote: (August 14, 2018 at 9:25 am)Jehanne Wrote: This morning at 10 AM CDT, the State of Nebraska is set to execute Carey Dean Moore, who says that he is "ready to die". His victims' families approve of his upcoming execution. But, when Mr. Moore dies a (hopefully) peaceful death, he will cease to exist, and hence, no longer suffer the punishments of prison. In fact, if he experiences what I experienced a few days ago when I fainted while on my feet due to a brief illness (probably, mono), he will never even experience death. Instead, he will go to sleep and then die.
In this sense, how can the death penalty be said to be "punishment"; isn't it just better to leave Mr. Moore in prison for the rest of his life if you wish to see him be punished for his heinous crimes? Instead, Mr. Moore gets to end his life on the World stage, on the front pages of major newspapers across the Globe.
Yes, but if you are going to argue what most really think about, outside moral issues, the real reason you should object to the death penalty is the cost to the tax payer. ON AVERAGE it costs the tax payer far more to prosecute a death penalty case than it does to give them life without parole.
The moral reason to object to it is that it hurts those without financial means to defend themselves, not just the poor, but the middle class as well. Not everyone has the money of a millionaire or billionaire who commits the same crime. And far too often it hurts minorities more on average for the same accusation.
In the end, it just creates more victims, in particular, the executed inmate's family, and in some cases, the victim's family, some of whom go on to regret the killing of the perpetrator, not to mention the stress on the correction officers who carry-out the death sentence.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 14, 2018 at 2:54 pm
1) Overcrowded jails make it worth it
2) Burden on society is lessened
3) Punishment to those that fear death is still a punishment.
4) He took a life, he can give a life.
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