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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 10:08 am
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 10:14 am by The Grand Nudger.)
True. Ultimately, though..involuntary time at a rehabilitation center (that actually does do good work) is still a prison sentence by another name. It may be a nicer cage, but it's still a cage. They still have to wait it out.
The demand of justice being that there are consequences for ones actions. We don't generally think that a person who would rather not have to endure the consequences of their actions is making a legitimate request.
Before it moves on, I'll add this. One of the worst problems with the state sanctioning the suicide of prisoners....would only present itself when a curious number of prison "suicides" started cropping up.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 10:18 am
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 10:19 am by LadyForCamus.)
(August 15, 2018 at 4:01 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: (August 15, 2018 at 11:39 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Why should a person like BTK get to continue living? Can pay death with more death ?
You didn’t answer my question. Why should BTK get to wake up every day and eat a hot breakfast, take a nap, feel the sun on his face even for a minute, or sexually pleasure himself to the memories of the unspeakable horror he put his victims through? Why should he get to do these things? Why does he deserve his own life when he has spent much of it extinguishing the lives of others in the cruelest, most sadistic way fathomable, for his own pleasure. Why does he still have a right to life?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 10:24 am
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 10:29 am by The Grand Nudger.)
If I may?
You're asking for a reason not to kill someone. Tiz is asking for a reason to kill someone. If the only reason we can think of to kill a person is that we have no reason not to (let's ignore that we do)......we're not really standing on solid ground.
If we contend that by violating someones right to this or that they themselves forfeit that same right and we will act in kind..we end up with a spiral of vengeance, not a system of justice. The problems with that sort of thing are profligate..not just in our system but throughout all of human history. Misery compounding misery and multiplied by incompetence. BTK was a fucking asshole..but why should we turn our state into his equal on that count, on account of him?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 10:24 am
(August 16, 2018 at 10:18 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: You didn’t answer my question. Why should BTK get to wake up every day and eat a hot breakfast, take a nap, feel the sun on his face even for a minute, or sexually pleasure himself to the memories of the unspeakable horror he put his victims through? Why should he get to do these things? Why does he deserve his own life when he has spent much of it extinguishing the lives of others in the cruelest, most sadistic way fathomable, for his own pleasure. Why does he still have a right to life?
Convolution of law is such a wonderful aspect of a convoluted 'Murica, wouldn't you say?
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 10:30 am
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 10:33 am by Mister Agenda.)
Canada made a conscious decision to focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment. As a result they cut their recidivism rate in half, sparing untold future victims. We are so concerned with making victimizers suffer that we will do it even in the face of evidence that it result in more victims. Of course with the death penalty, that particular victimizer won't reoffend, but they rarely never encountered the criminal justice system before committing a capital offense. There was almost always a chance to get a different result.
(August 16, 2018 at 10:18 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: (August 15, 2018 at 4:01 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Can pay death with more death ?
You didn’t answer my question. Why should BTK get to wake up every day and eat a hot breakfast, take a nap, feel the sun on his face even for a minute, or sexually pleasure himself to the memories of the unspeakable horror he put his victims through? Why should he get to do these things? Why does he deserve his own life when he has spent much of it extinguishing the lives of others in the cruelest, most sadistic way fathomable, for his own pleasure. Why does he still have a right to life?
If the death penalty was reserved for the likes of BTK, it would be a different discussion. Such criminals are used to justify the death penalty, which is then applied much more indiscriminately. Not infrequently enough, even to people convicted of crimes they did not actually commit.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 10:58 am
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 11:25 am by Anomalocaris.)
(August 16, 2018 at 10:18 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: (August 15, 2018 at 4:01 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Can pay death with more death ?
You didn’t answer my question. Why should BTK get to wake up every day and eat a hot breakfast, take a nap, feel the sun on his face even for a minute, or sexually pleasure himself to the memories of the unspeakable horror he put his victims through? Why should he get to do these things? Why does he deserve his own life when he has spent much of it extinguishing the lives of others in the cruelest, most sadistic way fathomable, for his own pleasure. Why does he still have a right to life?
Because spending money to take it away from him achieves no desirable end result whatsoever and only satiate totally nonproductive urge for revenge, which in itself is a damaging indulgence to promote.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:28 am
I think forcing someone to spend their life in prison instead of allowing them death if they want it, is just as akin to revenge as wanting the death penalty in the first place.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:34 am
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 11:37 am by The Grand Nudger.)
People can and do take their lives in prison. We don't need to sanction it for it to happen..and sanctioning it presents similar problems to sanctioning their murder. If insisting that a person do time for their crime (be that in prison or in a rehabilitation center or at community service) is revenge..then the whole enterprise of justice is revenge. We can pack it all up and just quit.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:36 am
Khemikal is stuck on a false positive: they can and do take their lives in prison.
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RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:39 am
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 11:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
-an interesting aside..this was an option in feudal japan. A person, fearing or not wishing to endure whatever punishment was coming down the pipe for them, could take their own life... and this was seen as an honorable decision.
Rehabilitation in itself.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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