God is perfect. And in any case, If He has the power to create the Universe I am inclined to believe He knows what He is talking about. Anyone can do that deserves the benefit of the doubt.

And, the scripture makes it clear that Jesus was well aware of what was coming..even knew He was going to be betrayed and let it happen. He gave Judas permission to go out and betray Him. When He was tempted by the devil he had the option of taking the devils offer of authority over the whole planet in exchange for worshipping him. He could have taken that offer and abandoned His mission but He didn't.

John 13:27

As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. "What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him,

Mark 8:31

He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again.

When one of his disciples was ready to fight, He said:

Matthew 26:52

Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?

But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”

(September 17, 2011 at 9:22 am)frankiej Wrote:

(September 16, 2011 at 10:23 pm)lucent Wrote: If Jesus is God then everything He said is true and He is the answer to all of our problems. That He sacrificed Himself so that anyone who believes in Him would be saved, and that He is the only way.

First of all, you don't know that what he said would be true if he were God... He could be up to mischief, or he could still be able to be wrong about something... Just because he has the power to create, doesn't mean he is right all the time, and all knowing.

Also, Jesus didn't sacrifice himself... He was killed. He had no choice in the matter. He couldn't have stopped them if he wanted to. So, it isn't like he willingly gave up his life... Saying that is bullshit.

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But when you get to hell you'll realize in about the first second that you were actually just deceived by the devil, and it was your own unrighteousness that allowed him to do it. Principle isn't going to be look too good at that time..

And I could find a room full of people who don't know the answer to the question if we visit a pre-school. The point is, that just because people give many different answers to the same question doesn't mean there isn't one right answer. It's not different flavors of Ice Cream..they're all claims which contradict eachother. If God has revealed Himself to the world, only religion could be right.

(September 17, 2011 at 9:27 am)theVOID Wrote: What is the optimal temperature for poaching eggs? Jesus!

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(September 16, 2011 at 10:23 pm)lucent Wrote: Well, by nature the truh is exclusive. You have to be able to see both sides of the fence, because when you have a bunch of different truth claims which contradict eachother, not all of them can be right. To evaluate a truth claim you have to step outside of your bias.

If Jesus is God then everything He said is true and He is the answer to all of our problems. That He sacrificed Himself so that anyone who believes in Him would be saved, and that He is the only way. That there are many different claims to truth out there doesn't speak to the exclusive nature of truth. 30 different people may give 30 different answers to what 2+2 equals, that doesn't mean there isn't a right answer to the question.

Nice job not addressing the question!

If Jesus is God they're both assholes. If the only way to be saved is to believe in Jesus, irrespective of what you've done in your life, then send me to hell! It's a matter of principle.

Oh, and your analogy fails, I guarantee you can't find 30 people who have different answers to 2+2

I still don't buy it just because it is in a book... There isn't anywhere else I can find this information about this Jesus chap...

In the same way that I only hear about Harry Potter in J.K Rowling's books.

(September 18, 2011 at 8:02 am)lucent Wrote: God is perfect.

*looks around at the reality you assert is his creation*

No, not even close.

Quote:But when you get to hell you'll realize in about the first second that you were actually just deceived by the devil, and it was your own unrighteousness that allowed him to do it.

Which Hell? And what if you're wrong?

How do you know the devil isn't deceiving you right now by pretending to be God and the One True God is -letting him- to put you to the test like he did with Job?

You don't know. Think before you invoke the spaghetti junction of dead-ends that is Pascal's Wager.

I love this crap: "Based on a true story!"

There is no evidence for any of this mumbo-jumbo, and I like the tack Frankie has been taking with Tolkien and Rowling: We can get carried away by any work of fantasy, but, just as with sci-fi conventions, it is important to be able to return to reality once the weekend is over. I see so little evidence of this ability on the part of xtians. They condemn people-even their own-to lives of living in a bad fantasy novel, and they do not reason their way out of it, preferring the fantasy to any sense of reality which could be corroborated by the use of reason.

Sad story, really: More a tragedy than anything else.

(September 18, 2011 at 8:02 am)lucent Wrote: But when you get to hell you'll realize in about the first second that you were actually just deceived by the devil, and it was your own unrighteousness that allowed him to do it. Principle isn't going to be look too good at that time..

And if you were the one to end up in hell? 5,000 religions mate, 5,000 hells. Maybe you'll end up in hades. Maybe Thor or Odin will punish you. We all could end up there, or maybe just you or just maybe....no one goes to either a hell or a heaven. For both were invented by man to hide away from the reality of death.
You're just as likely to end up in hell as the rest of us.

There is a lot of "you'll end up there" and "you must have faith or else". How about you just shut the fuck up with the fucking threats and learn to use reason.
It's like you've never taken in the possibility that you could be wrong. In all likely hood, you probably are.

Why do you say God is perfect?

What do you base this on?
Just because he made the universe doesn't mean he would have to be perfect.