(September 12, 2018 at 5:43 pm)bennyboy Wrote: See, if we were having this kind of discussion from the start, I might actually have been inclined to take you seriously.

We were.  You decided to take it elsewhere. Despite my protestations to the contrary, you declared yourself a bigot and then dove headlong into the bowels of scientific racism.

Like a real fuckin nub.

It's not as if I just linked you this shit yesterday, now is it? You didn't want to hear it..the first time..or the second time...or the third time...or the fourth time..or the...so on and so forth. Thing is, it's been true since the very first time.

Looking at your last post, I'll ask you again...how is it you wound up affirming the entirety of modern white supremacy...as a non-racist? Is that something you're ready to discuss, now? -Do- you try to find the truth? Whats a truthful answer to that question.....in your estimation?

(September 12, 2018 at 10:45 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(September 12, 2018 at 5:43 pm)bennyboy Wrote: See, if we were having this kind of discussion from the start, I might actually have been inclined to take you seriously.

We were.  You decided to take it elsewhere.  Despite my protestations to the contrary, you declared yourself a bigot and then dove headlong into the bowels of scientific racism.  

Like a real fuckin nub.

It's not as if I just linked you this shit yesterday, now is it?  You didn't want to hear it..the first time..or the second time...or the third time...or the fourth time..or the...so on and so forth.  Thing is, it's been true since the very first time.

Looking at your last post, I'll ask you again...how is it you wound up affirming the entirety of modern white supremacy...as a non-racist?  Is that something you're ready to discuss, now?  -Do- you try to find the truth? Whats a truthful answer to that question.....in your estimation?

"In my estimation," you conflate fact with intent-- anything negative about black people, in this case, conflated with the "white supremacist narrative."

What you do is you have your little list of things NOBODY likes, you label it "white narrative" and then when anybody stands up for any argument they make, you say, "See?  You're doing it.  You're doiinnnnggg it!!!"

Me: Hey.  You say you're against racism, but you keep making racist comments toward me.
You:  You're doinnnnnggg it.  You're claiming victim, just like the other white supremacists.  You're carrying the script.

Me: Hey.  That alt-right site gives specific details about IQ across demographics.  I looked it up, and they seem to be correct.
You:  Racist science is debunked!  Why are you carrying the alt-right scriiiiipt!?

Me:  Look, dude, I like to think for myself, and I don't like when people use epithets to try and steer a dialogue.
You:  You're claiming I'm impinging on your free speech?  Oh, you're crying victim now?  You're doing it againnnnn!

Me:  I think the PC Left target white people generally, and white men specifically, stereotypically.  I'm not like that, and I don't think the majority of white people are racist.
You:  See?  You are claiming stigmatization.  That's #3 in the list, so that makes it trruuuuueee! You're obviously a puppet for the normalization of White Supremacy!!! You've been conned by the alt-right propaganda machiiiiiine!


How about this?  Your way of arguing is childish, and you have no useful ideas to contribute.  You argue like a dick. I like to have discussions where people consider facts and solutions, but you seem more interested in sniffing your Righteous Farts of Justice than in actually helping anybody. I think you're a do-nothing, no-plan-having, pretending-to-care-but-not-really, hypocrite. I mean. . . you wouldn't even cite a source for real money to help real kids.

Yeah, you're a fucking White Knight, dude. You are about two more posts from restoring equality across the lands. Keep up the noble fight!

(September 12, 2018 at 11:56 pm)bennyboy Wrote: "In my estimation," you conflate fact with intent-- anything negative about black people, in this case, conflated with the "white supremacist narrative."

There's actually nothing about black people, whatsoever, in the five items identified.  Kind of smart, huh?

Quote:What you do is you have your little list of things NOBODY likes, you label it "white narrative" and then when anybody stands up for any argument they make, you say, "See?  You're doing it.  You're doiinnnnggg it!!!"

I can only suggest that you read the links so many times.  I'm not personally labeling anything..I'm communicating the contents of studies on the subject that take an analytic approach to white supremacy and how it communicates itself today (as opposed to..say, back when they were marching in the streets wearing white hoods and bitching about negros was a winning strat).  

Quote:How about this?  Your way of arguing is childish, and you have no useful ideas to contribute.  You argue like a dick.  I like to have discussions where people consider facts and solutions, but you seem more interested in sniffing your Righteous Farts of Justice than in actually helping anybody.  I think you're a do-nothing, no-plan-having, pretending-to-care-but-not-really, hypocrite.  I mean. . . you wouldn't even cite a source for real money to help real kids.

-as long as you don't have to read links and consider facts, ofc.  

Quote:Yeah, you're a fucking White Knight, dude.  You are about two more posts from restoring equality across the lands.  Keep up the noble fight!

...you're doing it again, lol.

The answer to the question I asked you...which was how you ended up affirming the narrative of white supremacy..appears to be "Because I think they're just so damned right!" Do you think that a rational person could see that as the takeaway, here?

(September 13, 2018 at 6:10 am)Khemikal Wrote: ...you're doing it again, lol.

By saying that, YOU'RE doing it again!

Yes, you are freely communicating the narrative (and have been for many pages, lol), and I'm pointing out your affirmation of the narrative and common trends in discussion and denial of the same.  That's what pc leftists™ do. Point out those things we sometimes say that are false, racist, and damaging.

See how easy it is to plainly own what a person does and why?

It's just as easy to show you, again, where and why you are wrong about white victimization, scientific racism, and pc or sj issues and ideology...even if I can't make you give a shit whether or not it's racist or damaging.

(September 13, 2018 at 10:50 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Yes, you are freely communicating the narrative (and have been for many pages, lol), and I'm pointing out your affirmation of the narrative and common trends in discussion and denial of the same.  That's what pc leftists™ do.  Point out those things we sometimes say that are false, racist, and damaging.

When the narrative is so global, and when such a strong demonization is applied to a group under that narrative, then that deliberate inflation can only be seen as a PR campaign.

"If you say you don't like racist comments applied to you, and you're white, then. . . You're doing it agaiiiinnnn!"

What sensible person, when told that they are debating someone who is completely free from racist thoughts, wouldn't expect not to be confronted with racist comments from that person? Obvious hypocrisy is obvious, dude.

(You: "Omg you are claiming hypocrisy. That's #6 on my list of everything every person would ever do in any debate, but I choose to call White Supremacist Narrative. Your'e doing it agaaainnnn!")

Quote:It's just as easy to show you, again, where and why you are wrong about white victimization, scientific racism, and pc or sj issues and ideology...even if I can't make you give a shit whether or not it's racist or damaging.

You're doing it again.

I've not only shown that I care, by suggesting plans that might actually help (you haven't) or even by offering up my own money (you haven't), I've been all over the facts. If you don't see that every fact I've collected has immediately gone to a discussion of how to solve the problem of inequity, then you are blind or being willfully ignorant."

Your 20 pages of fuckery in refusing to cite your factual assertions STILL haven't demonstrated anything that I hadn't already said. And as I said, I'll literally give you 100% of everything you've ever claimed, and then ask you-- "What would you do?"

See, my claim is that PC Left are bullshitters, and do nothing but talk, but have no real point or plan beyond their desire to gratify themselves. You have countered me by. . . having no real point or plan beyond your desire to gratify yourself.

Here's what you need to do to escape the fart-sniffing:
1) Have a goal
2) Have facts on your side
3) Make a plan
4) Follow the plan

We both know that's not gonna happen.

(September 13, 2018 at 11:35 pm)bennyboy Wrote: What sensible person, when told that they are debating someone who is completely free from racist thoughts, wouldn't expect not to be confronted with racist comments from that person?  Obvious hypocrisy is obvious, dude.

Even if I were a dirty, filthy racist...you would still be affirming the normalizing language of white supremacy.  The one thing wouldn't modify alter or excuse the other. If that's not something you want to do, only you can stop it.  

Quote:See, my claim is that PC Left are bullshitters, and do nothing but talk, but have no real point or plan beyond their desire to gratify themselves.  You have countered me by. . . having no real point or plan beyond your desire to gratify yourself.

Political correctness is about the way we speak to each other and about each other.  Complaining about it being a bunch of talk is pretty silly.  

Quote:We both know that's not gonna happen.

My plan is to avoid the normalization of white supremacy.  I think that's a good plan.

The goal is to prevent the consequences of casual racism. Failing that, to provide some measure of resistance in the face of the same.
You can avail yourself of the facts at any point by clinking da links.

(September 13, 2018 at 11:40 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Even if I were a dirty, filthy racist...you would still be affirming the normalizing language of white supremacy.  The one thing wouldn't modify alter or excuse the other.   If that's not something you want to do, only you can stop it.  

Your whole view of "affirmation" is typical, but malformed.  A single statement can be construed as affirming any number of positions or narratives.  "I don't like you saying racist things about me just because I'm white" might mean I'm a white supremacist, and I'm trying to flip the script on the well-meaning PC who are just trying to look out for real victims in an oppressive culture.

OR could could mean that I do not like the politics of demographic division, in general-- and I'd very much like "no racism" to actually mean "no racism."

(You: Seeeeee!?  In refusing to accept racism toward yourself, you are being racissssst!)

Quote:Political correctness is about the way we speak to each other and about each other.  Complaining about it being a bunch of talk is pretty silly.

PC is about controlling the things we can talk about, and in particular, which demographic groups should be seen as victims or as oppressors-- despite the intent or merit of individuals in either group.

(September 13, 2018 at 11:40 pm)Khemikal Wrote: My plan is to avoid the normalization of white supremacy.  I think that's a good plan.

Do you really think this is a good plan if the goal is to reduce income disparity?  You don't think that my plans: heath care and drug programs in impoverished areas, release of prisoners with financial incentives, early-school programs EVEN IF heritability is ultimately 80% for adults, because dammit 20% matter.  You don't think these are all better plans than yours?  I totally disagree.  Your methods not only won't achieve your goals, but I believe they will tend to prevent them from being achieved.

You really sure you want to promote enforced division as the best plan to achieve unity?  Good luck, bro.

Quote:The goal is to prevent the consequences of casual racism.  Failing that, to provide some measure of resistance in the face of the same.
You can avail yourself of the facts at any point by clinking da links.

If you have a point you want to make, you can make it.  If you want to EXCHANGE links, and read an equal number of papers that I will provide for you, then I'll do it: I'll go page for page, with no limit at all-- entire books if you want.  I've already demonstrated that I've read your papers on IQ-- by quoting them, or summarizing them.

I know you will flounder around with some BS narrative rather than actually do the same amount of work you are asking me to do, but I will still give you the offer:

Are you willing to go 1:1?  If yes, let's do it.  We will go deeeeep down the rabbit hole, and come up with a strong understanding of both sides.  If not, then you will have to conform to the ordinary standard-- make a point yourself, and when asserting facts, quote them and cite them properly.

My prediction: You'll flounder around with some new angle on your narrative, dump a few more links as a red herring, and then play Socrates: "Why do youuuuu think what you're saying could be construed as blah blah blah?"


Make a point.  Support it.  That's how it works.

(September 13, 2018 at 11:59 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(September 13, 2018 at 11:40 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Even if I were a dirty, filthy racist...you would still be affirming the normalizing language of white supremacy.  The one thing wouldn't modify alter or excuse the other.   If that's not something you want to do, only you can stop it.  

Your whole view of "affirmation" is typical, but malformed.  A single statement can be construed as affirming any number of positions or narratives.  "I don't like you saying racist things about me just because I'm white" might mean I'm a white supremacist, and I'm trying to flip the script on the well-meaning PC who are just trying to look out for real victims in an oppressive culture.

OR could could mean that I do not like the politics of demographic division, in general-- and I'd very much like "no racism" to actually mean "no racism."

(You: Seeeeee!?  In refusing to accept racism toward yourself, you are being racissssst!)

The white victimization narrative is a perfect example of the politics of divison.  It's also demonstrably false.  The left (pc or otherwise) is not discriminating against the white man on account of his whiteness. It is not taking the white mans rights away.  It is not stigmitizing or denying the white mans pride on account of their whiteness.  The white man is not being robbed of his esteem on account of his whiteness.  The white man is ot being eliminated..nor are the people who oppose white supremacist ideology gulaging anyone or causing the destruction of western society.

They are racists, Benny, bitching and pissing and moaning at there being consequences for freely engaging in their racism, in between bouts of complete fantasy. You've obviously been convinced that they are just so damned right (though when it comes to a black guy he's pulling the race card and the pc folks are fart sniffers). This is a testament to the effectiveness of their normalizing device, and your level of sympathy with their ideology...not it's factual accuracy.

Quote:PC is about controlling the things we can talk about, and in particular, which demographic groups should be seen as victims or as oppressors-- despite the intent or merit of individuals in either group.

Only you can control what comes out of your mouth.  PC is about avoiding the consequences of casual racism by making racist speech consequential. It's easy not to run afoul of the pc police. Just dont blurt out ethnic slurs and racial myths. You can manage that...I'm certain, even if you haven't done so well in this thread. If, however, you freely decide to freely run your mouth in a racist way..people will think you are a racist...and some of them..perish the thought..will tell you so. It can't really force people to stop blowing the whistle or going full on 14 words like a common tucker carlson...but it can help to ensure that they must be deeply invested in doing so, and willing to lose ad revenue on account of it. In politics (note the p in pc) that's immensely helpful..as a politician of a certain bent absolutely will do fucked up shit to people if it's consequence free to do so, or if they can hide behind a manufactured normalcy.

That's what has happened in the us. Do you understand that? What hasn't happened, in the US, is the communist apocalypse that bigots have been predicting for half a century as a way to deflect from the -other- silly shit that freely falls from their mouths and ends up as policy.

Quote:If you have a point you want to make, you can make it.  If you want to EXCHANGE links, and read an equal number of papers that I will dump on you, then I'll do it.  I've already demonstrated that I've read your papers on IQ-- by quoting them, or summarizing them.

I know you will flounder around with some BS narrative rather than actually do the same amount of work you are asking me to do, but I will still give you the offer:

Are you willing to go 1:1?  If yes, let's do it.  We will go deeeeep down the rabbit hole, and come up with a strong understanding of both sides.  If not, then you will have to conform to the ordinary standard-- make a point yourself, and when asserting facts, quote them and cite them properly.

I'm not going to humor you as though there is any equality between our positions on this matter, or that there is any onus that I provide you with more information to ignore.

You've indicated that facts are important to you. Well, okay, then address those facts that have already been conveyed to you and accept them for what they are, rather than what your white supremacist internet buddies have told you they must be? While we're at it..perhaps we can stop pretending that your browser history isn't a map of the alt right pipeline? If we can't even begin a discussion grounded in these facts..then all the above amounts to is a loon challenging people to debates in order to generate the appearance of credibility.

(September 14, 2018 at 12:12 am)Khemikal Wrote: I'm not going to humor you as though there is any equality between our positions on this matter, or that there is any onus that I provide you with more information to ignore.

Expected refusal to discuss in an equitable manner noted. Without knowing WHAT I'm going to cite, or to say, you are willing to assume its content anyway, and disregard it offhand.

Kind of like everyone in the room knows that's how the PC Left works, no? Shout down your opponent, marginalize them with epithets, refuse ON PRINCIPLE to even consider anything they might say, fill their mouths with racist nonsense they neither said nor agree with, and then smell your farts.

Seems legit.

Quote:You've indicated that facts are important to you.  Well, okay, then address those facts that have already been conveyed to you and accept them for what they are, rather than what your white supremacist internet buddies have told you they must be?

Quote facts, cite them properly, and I will consider any and all facts. It's not my responsibility to read through a bunch of web pages and try to figure out what it is that you want to say.

Quote:  While we're at it..perhaps we can stop pretending that your browser history isn't a map of the alt right pipeline?

If "alt right pipeline" includes one alt-right site (which I already cited), wikipedia, a bunch of statistical pages, a couple of news articles and a whole ton of Asian VR porn sites, then. . . I guess, maybe...? To be honest, about half of the facts I currently point to in confirming my assertions are from YOUR sources, which mostly agree with me, and none of which contradict anything I ever said.

Quote:  If we can't even begin a discussion grounded in these facts..then all the above amounts to is a loon challenging people to debates in order to generate the appearance of credibility.

Yeah. . . a loon challenging people to debate in an online forum. I'm one crazy mother-fucker!