(September 18, 2018 at 9:30 pm)Fireball Wrote: As we read them today, "Jesus" and apostles with names like "Mark", "Peter", are modern inventions. No one in the ME has a name like that, so when the buybull was written, they'd be called something else. This is only a small reason why I don't believe in any of that.

Thank god. I've been trying to live it down for 5 decades.

(September 18, 2018 at 9:56 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Carrier proposed Jesus as existing between heaven and earth? WTF?

Carrier proposed him as a mythological character existing in outer space.  Just like all the other gods of the time.

(September 18, 2018 at 10:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(September 18, 2018 at 9:56 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Carrier proposed Jesus as existing between heaven and earth? WTF?

Carrier proposed him as a mythological character existing in outer space.  Just like all the other gods of the time.

Like an asteroid or comet?

Except made of thin air...not ice or rocks or anything real.

I am a member of many sites where the people there make wood or metal projects. Most of them are quite religious, for whatever reason. I don't argue religion there, I just look at and post projects. When the subject of religion, especially xtianity, comes up, I am compelled to comment about the "putative" Jesus. I've had people tell me that Richard Carrier was all over that, but admitted that Jesus existed. Reading comprehension fail, or just outright denial, take your pick.

(September 18, 2018 at 8:15 pm)mrj Wrote: There have been several theories proposed that Jesus was not a real person. For example, he is a divine being that lived his life in the space between heaven and earth.  I think Richard Carrier proposed this.

So one question I have, is if Jesus was completely made up, why is his name "Jesus"?
I would think based on prophecy, a 'fake' Jesus would have been named Immanuel.  Not Jesus.
If you are going to make it up, you would make it up so that minor discrepancies such as this would be avoided.

Don't you think, then, that the gospels were at least based on a real person?

You do realise that it's not "Jesus" in the bible but Yeshua, a name as common amongst jews back then as Joshua is amongst christians today. Name has no say on whether the bible stories are fictional or mythical.

I like that this guy is up front about being a cafeteria Catholic.

Personally, I think there's likely to be a mix of several historical figures peppered into the gospels, but it's mostly fiction. The idea that there is exactly one person behind all the stories is rather a ridiculous claim in my opinion. All we can do is figure out what is most likely, and even if people intended to be honest (which there is much evidence to the contrary), they were relying on hearsay. Even within a very short time period, hearsay jumbles up badly.

I don't think it matters, to be honest. I don't doubt there were preachers at the time, probably some claiming to be the son of God. Some of them probably got so annoying they got executed. This has nothing to do with these people being extraordinary in any way.

(September 18, 2018 at 11:53 pm)Fireball Wrote: I am a member of many sites where the people there make wood or metal projects. Most of them are quite religious, for whatever reason. I don't argue religion there, I just look at and post projects. When the subject of religion, especially xtianity, comes up, I am compelled to comment about the "putative" Jesus. I've had people tell me that Richard Carrier was all over that, but admitted that Jesus existed. Reading comprehension fail, or just outright denial, take your pick.

Um, I hope these morons aren't building anything that people's lives depend on, like bridges or tunnels.

From Page 610 of On The Historicity of Jesus.



It takes a first class moron to find  an admission that "jesus existed" in that.  Speaking of morons, where is Dripshit?

(September 18, 2018 at 8:15 pm)mrj Wrote: There have been several theories proposed that Jesus was not a real person. For example, he is a divine being that lived his life in the space between heaven and earth.  I think Richard Carrier proposed this.

So one question I have, is if Jesus was completely made up, why is his name "Jesus"?
I would think based on prophecy, a 'fake' Jesus would have been named Immanuel.  Not Jesus.
If you are going to make it up, you would make it up so that minor discrepancies such as this would be avoided.

Don't you think, then, that the gospels were at least based on a real person?

Are you that desperate?