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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 28, 2018 at 5:47 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2018 at 5:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
God cant be brave, according to Steve. It's just not possible for him. He can't respect either...again according to Steve, also not possible for him.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 28, 2018 at 6:14 pm
(September 28, 2018 at 5:02 pm)Grandizer Wrote: (September 28, 2018 at 11:56 am)SteveII Wrote: Umm, bravery and respect are not possible for God to have. Possible was the very first concept brought up on this topic. There, imagined problem solved. Your entire last paragraph is about epistemology again and not ontology. We don't need to know what mix of properties is greater. You have failed over and over to even come close to illustrating your contention that is is not possible to a have a maximally great being. You only bring up confusion as to how would we know: epistemology--which is not a concern at all.
According to the Bible, Jesus experienced fear, you dolt.
Oh great. Another theologically astute atheist who can correct me when I mischaracterize basic Christian doctrine. So gifted that he can correct all us Christians in one sentence posts that will even include something insulting. So efficient.
Two things. The first is I think you are wrong. Second, Jesus and the word 'God' are not interchangeable.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 28, 2018 at 6:18 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2018 at 6:20 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Quote:Jesus is God
Jesus is God – What does the Bible say about Jesus’ deity?
Does the Bible, which is the earliest and most historically reliable source, actually say Jesus is God? What does it tell us about Jesus and His identity?
Let’s take a brief look at a few of the many passages that clearly and consistently answer that question, straight from the pages of Scripture. We’ll begin by going back an additional 700 years before the life of Christ, to the Old Testament book of Isaiah.
https://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/jesus-is-god.htm
Take it up with that christian asshole, lol. He's in need of your correction.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 28, 2018 at 6:41 pm
According to the story, the god had a son, that was himself as a threeome with the holy spirit-
I just can't raise myself to let my son (or me) die for a bunch of people that the previous flood couldn't fix.
Looking at it this way, it almost makes their god human. Try a flood? nope. Burning down cities while lot the righteous man on earth comingled with his daughters, nope.Suicide for everyone, not really suicide, pretend to be suicide to get followers, somehow seems okay. one must stand in awe.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 28, 2018 at 6:52 pm
(September 28, 2018 at 6:14 pm)SteveII Wrote: (September 28, 2018 at 5:02 pm)Grandizer Wrote: According to the Bible, Jesus experienced fear, you dolt.
Oh great. Another theologically astute atheist who can correct me when I mischaracterize basic Christian doctrine. So gifted that he can correct all us Christians in one sentence posts that will even include something insulting. So efficient.
I'm an atheist who was a former evangelical Christian with a good understanding of the Christian theology per the standard mainstream Protestant interpretation. And I wasn't correcting all Christians; I was correcting you. And all that needed was just one sentence, easy.
You also do quite a bit of insulting yourself. So don't be a hypocrite.
Quote:Two things. The first is I think you are wrong. Second, Jesus and the word 'God' are not interchangeable.
No, the Bible clearly shows that Jesus experienced fear. I'm on my phone now, so can't quote Bible passages, but you should know which ones I'm referring to if you really are a theologically astute Christian.
And Jesus is God. So Jesus the God experienced fear. Jesus the man and Jesus the God are not two different people according to mainstream Christianity.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 28, 2018 at 6:56 pm
It's the Christology that matters, not simply that Christ knew fear. Personally, I don't find any of the Christologies I've heard, including Steve's, to be coherent, but that's never been an obstacle to Christians before so I don't know why it would be now.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 28, 2018 at 7:12 pm
(September 28, 2018 at 6:56 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: It's the Christology that matters, not simply that Christ knew fear. Personally, I don't find any of the Christologies I've heard, including Steve's, to be coherent, but that's never been an obstacle to Christians before so I don't know why it would be now.
Nothing is an obstacle to Christians ... not as long as they're not open to change in their worldview.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 28, 2018 at 7:34 pm
Quote:Oh great. Another theologically astute atheist who can correct me when I mischaracterize basic Christian doctrine. So gifted that he can correct all us Christians in one sentence posts that will even include something insulting. So efficient.
Oh great another arrogant Christian apologist who assumes only Christians understand theology or Christian doctrine like it's some profound science only the chosen can know .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 28, 2018 at 8:17 pm
(September 28, 2018 at 7:30 am)SteveII Wrote: 1. Love is a clear example of a moral virtue (if not the clearest). No. That is an emotional state
(September 28, 2018 at 7:30 am)SteveII Wrote: 2. Killing babies for no reason constitutes a lack of love and therefore a lack of moral virtue. Then your god is immoral.
(September 28, 2018 at 7:30 am)SteveII Wrote: 3. Yahweh is considered all-loving and therefore defined as having the greatest possible moral virtue at all times. No, yahweh kills babies for no reason and is therefore by definition immoral
(September 28, 2018 at 7:30 am)SteveII Wrote: 4. Positive outcomes (harmony, structure, creation, trust, relationships) are better the Negative Outcomes (chaos, destruction, distrust, isolation) for conscious creatures Sure. your god has no interest in those. Why?
(September 28, 2018 at 7:30 am)SteveII Wrote: 5. Greater moral virtue is better than lesser moral virtue because it regulates other attributes for more positive/less negative outcomes. Sure. But your god is always the lesser and even obviates morals. Why?
(September 28, 2018 at 7:30 am)SteveII Wrote: 6. More positive outcomes is better than more negative outcomes. OK that is just stupid and flies in the face of your god.
(September 28, 2018 at 7:30 am)SteveII Wrote: 7. Therefore Yahweh is greater than a god that kills babies. Except your god kills babies. And that is unforgiveable.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
September 28, 2018 at 8:19 pm
(September 28, 2018 at 6:52 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Quote:Two things. The first is I think you are wrong. Second, Jesus and the word 'God' are not interchangeable.
No, the Bible clearly shows that Jesus experienced fear. I'm on my phone now, so can't quote Bible passages, but you should know which ones I'm referring to if you really are a theologically astute Christian.
Looking forward to that reference...
Quote:And Jesus is God. So Jesus the God experienced fear. Jesus the man and Jesus the God are not two different people according to mainstream Christianity.
Precision in language is so underrated! Jesus is not ONLY God. So when one is describing attributes of God, one is NOT also describing attributes of Jesus. I should not have to point that out to one with a "good understanding of the Christian theology". So, it unless you can produce that passage that says Jesus feared for himself you are wrong on multiple levels. Man...you are efficient!
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