(November 12, 2018 at 2:59 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You do raise a good point at the bottom, at least, how can a person believe in something if they're ignorant of it?  Who knows..and yet those very same people are certain that they believe the right things, in spite of having no idea what those right things are supposed to be.  It doesn't seem to help that they, also, have "studied the Word and seek God".

"those very same people are certain that they believe the right things, in spite of having no idea what those right things are supposed to be."
This is the group of people who this thread was about, those who do not understand the tenets of their own faith. They are correctly described as blindly following whatever they are told, because they have little to no understanding of what they claim to believe in.

The existence of such people does not imply that anyone who claims to have a similar faith is in the same boat. Some people can give a sound explanation of their faith at any given moment, some would require a bit of preparation, some would speak for three hours, some for five minutes, and yes, some would have nothing at all to say.

Is it not the same with every school of study? Catholicism, Islam, Communism, Capitalism, biology, herbal healthcare, atheism, agnosticism, musical theory, pro-choice, etc. There are always some who strive for excellence and understanding, there are always some who only have a mild interest and aren't really committed, and the rest fall into varying degrees between the two. My point is that the topic of this thread uses the poorest representation of Christianity to represent the church in general, which is inaccurate and serves no purpose (other than smugness and amusement for the people engaged in this thread). I could (some do) use the same approach for atheism to make you all look like idiots to my theist friends, but that would not be true since some atheists have reasons for their beliefs and I'd much rather show that to other theists than deceive them into thinking you are all halfwits

---

(November 12, 2018 at 3:04 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: From my experience here I can safely say that no two Christians believe the same thing.

For example.

Tell me what a god is please.

I've been here for years and I still have no idea.

A simple explanation would be a divine spirit which is perfect in wisdom, knowledge and power.

You would understand much more if you sought him yourself though, for whoever seeks will find.

(November 13, 2018 at 1:18 pm)silverspine Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 2:59 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You do raise a good point at the bottom, at least, how can a person believe in something if they're ignorant of it?  Who knows..and yet those very same people are certain that they believe the right things, in spite of having no idea what those right things are supposed to be.  It doesn't seem to help that they, also, have "studied the Word and seek God".

"those very same people are certain that they believe the right things, in spite of having no idea what those right things are supposed to be."
This is the group of people who this thread was about, those who do not understand the tenets of their own faith. They are correctly described as blindly following whatever they are told, because they have little to no understanding of what they claim to believe in.

The existence of such people does not imply that anyone who claims to have a similar faith is in the same boat. Some people can give a sound explanation of their faith at any given moment, some would require a bit of preparation, some would speak for three hours, some for five minutes, and yes, some would have nothing at all to say.

Is it not the same with every school of study? Catholicism, Islam, Communism, Capitalism, biology, herbal healthcare, atheism, agnosticism, musical theory, pro-choice, etc. There are always some who strive for excellence and understanding, there are always some who only have a mild interest and aren't really committed, and the rest fall into varying degrees between the two. My point is that the topic of this thread uses the poorest representation of Christianity to represent the church in general, which is inaccurate and serves no purpose (other than smugness and amusement for the people engaged in this thread). I could (some do) use the same approach for atheism to make you all look like idiots to my theist friends, but that would not be true since some atheists have reasons for their beliefs and I'd much rather show that to other theists than deceive them into thinking you are all halfwits

The trouble, silver is that this survey isn't about "the poorest representation of christianity" - it's about the average believer.  Your previous insistence that this must somehow be a case of people who did not read magic book and seek god (the way you do, I'm sure you imagine) is just a piece with this new way of insisting the same thing.  

If you would like to try to do the same thing with atheism, be my guest...but I don't think it's going to turn out the way you imagine.  Meanwhile, no one is "making" these uninformed but supremely confident believers look bad, but themselves...and now..you..as a member of that set.

Quote:A simple explanation would be a divine spirit which is perfect in wisdom, knowledge and power.

You would understand much more if you sought him yourself though, for whoever seeks will find.

Case in point. Many have sought..and did not find. You are surrounded by them on these boards. Not only this, but magic book holds the god-man himself out as saying that the situation is a bit more complicated. Were you unaware, did you simply not read magic book right while properly seeking god? Are you one of the poorest representations of christianity?

(November 11, 2018 at 8:13 pm)silverspine Wrote: ...perhaps you are not fair in stereotyping everyone who claims to believe in Christ.

When you all come in here with your preachyness and weak attempts to shame atheists for not believing in your brand of woo, knowing exactly where it is you are posting, then yes we don't have to be fair in how we judge your kind. If you don't like it, feel free to post where that sort of garbage is acceptable.

(November 12, 2018 at 2:31 pm)silverspine Wrote:

(November 11, 2018 at 9:41 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Yeah sorry, but not a fan of this elitist "I'm Superior to other Christians" thinking.

Who is talking about elitism and superiority? This thread is about evangelicals being ignorant to the tenets of their faith. If they are ignorant to it, they cannot very well believe it, can they? I'm just saying some people know what they believe in because they study the Word and seek God.

Yes, you're very special. Good for you. It's just that I've heard the same stuff by other supposed non-denominal Evangelical types.

(November 13, 2018 at 1:50 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If you would like to try to do the same thing with atheism, be my guest...but I don't think it's going to turn out the way you imagine.  Meanwhile, no one is "making" these uninformed but supremely confident believers look bad, but themselves...and now..you..as a member of that set.

I did not say I could win all the debates and make you look dumb in front of other people. I said I could take several people of any belief system that don't have strong views or arguments, and hold them up to display the folly of their belief based on their particular ignorance of it, which is an inaccurate method of gauging anything. Isn't that what this topic is about? And isn't it terribly easy to convince people of an exaggeration if they are already inclined to agree to any anti-christian sentiment?

Quote:Many have sought..and did not find. You are surrounded by them on these boards.

Mere curiosity, did you at one time seek God, then turn atheist because you did not find him? Or did you seek God while already believing he is a myth?

---

(November 13, 2018 at 2:13 pm)Joods Wrote: When you all come in here with your preachyness and weak attempts to shame atheists for not believing in your brand of woo, knowing exactly where it is you are posting, then yes we don't have to be fair in how we judge your kind. If you don't like it,  feel free to post where that sort of garbage is acceptable.

Hey man, I made no attempts to shame anyone. We're just having a discussion on the ignorance of some evangelicals. And the only 'preachiness' you heard from me was an answer to a direct question.

I am currently living in Mexico and I don't speak Spanish. While the few people I can speak to here are quite pleasant, they don't care for the same sort of dialogue as I do, so I joined this forum for the sake of intelligent conversations.

---

(November 14, 2018 at 1:43 am)Grandizer Wrote: Yes, you're very special. Good for you. It's just that I've heard the same stuff by other supposed non-denominal Evangelical types.

Again, you falsely imply that I'm exalting myself rather than staying on the topic. Being a firm atheist surely you've come across some people who do "know the tenets of their faith". Whether or not their faith is falsely placed is not even the topic, only whether or not they know what they are supposed to believe in.

Well, if you want intelligent conversation start with leaving out the bits telling atheists that they need to search for god and other such meaningless drivel. You and every other theist that has posted here has done exactly that.
I don't need to search for that imaginary fairytale. I wasted most of my life doing just that until I got smart and realized that it just doesn't exist. I'm good without a god.

(November 12, 2018 at 7:15 am)Khemikal Wrote: Pretty sure that the sunni and shia created their own divisions, and didn't need the great satans help on that one.  In any case..you're all soulless, and insomuch as you are all hilariously religious, you are indeed the same.

And how does that criticize my position; exactly xD ?

Actually, I have been repeating that for years in this place, even the religious affilation label I carry in here is saying I'm a neither Sunni or Shiite Muslim, so yes; they indeed created their own divisions, and if you concentrate at missionaries of both faiths you won't find a lot of a difference between them and -let's say- your average Christian missionary.

The hilarious part is that your chosen side -the secular/non-religious- are the inhumane, soulless creatures that doomed us all with their invention and use of atomic weapons, and justifying it with constitutions that try so hard to mimic God's book xD.

At least my religion says no to killing the innocent.

(November 14, 2018 at 1:54 am)silverspine Wrote:

(November 13, 2018 at 1:50 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If you would like to try to do the same thing with atheism, be my guest...but I don't think it's going to turn out the way you imagine.  Meanwhile, no one is "making" these uninformed but supremely confident believers look bad, but themselves...and now..you..as a member of that set.

I did not say I could win all the debates and make you look dumb in front of other people. I said I could take several people of any belief system that don't have strong views or arguments, and hold them up to display the folly of their belief based on their particular ignorance of it, which is an inaccurate method of gauging anything. Isn't that what this topic is about? And isn't it terribly easy to convince people of an exaggeration if they are already inclined to agree to any anti-christian sentiment?

Which is why I doubt that trying the same thing with atheism will produce the effect you suggested.  Atheism isn't a belief system to begin with.  It's a single line item to one question and nothing else.  Do you believe in gods?  If the answer is no, tada, that person is an atheist.  There's nothing else to it to get right or wrong...which isn't the case for beliefs systems like christianity...and the fact that people get the articles of those systems wrong is unremarkable in and of itself, but has nothing to do with your notions of them not properly reading magic book and seeking fairies...which is an article of the christian faith that -you- have gotten wrong...if we can trust that "jesus" got it right.  

Quote:Mere curiosity, did you at one time seek God, then turn atheist because you did not find him? Or did you seek God while already believing he is a myth?

No, my parents loved me far too much to saddle me with religious baggage, lol.  Dodged a bullet on that one.  

(November 14, 2018 at 8:59 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 7:15 am)Khemikal Wrote: Pretty sure that the sunni and shia created their own divisions, and didn't need the great satans help on that one.  In any case..you're all soulless, and insomuch as you are all hilariously religious, you are indeed the same.

And how does that criticize my position; exactly xD ?

You probably ought to remember the things you've said.  I shouldn't have to remind you.  You claimed that the great satan had caused the division between sunni and shia.  This was and is, ofc...fucking absurd..but you have a compulsion.

Quote:The hilarious part is that your chosen side -the secular/non-religious- are the inhumane, soulless creatures that doomed us all with their invention and use of atomic weapons, and justifying it with constitutions that try so hard to mimic God's book xD.

You do realize that america in the 40's was a very christian place, right?  The people who built, dropped, and decided to drop bombs were predominantly religious.  The justification for the use of weapons (any weapons, any use) is ultimately to effect the end of conflict.

Additionally, while my use of the term soulless is merely to describe a matter of fact..yours is intentionally leveraged at dehumanization. Consider for a moment who you truly are, rather than who you imagine yourself to be.

Quote:At least my religion says no to killing the innocent.

Your religion might, your magic book says otherwise.

(November 14, 2018 at 1:54 am)silverspine Wrote:

(November 14, 2018 at 1:43 am)Grandizer Wrote: Yes, you're very special. Good for you. It's just that I've heard the same stuff by other supposed non-denominal Evangelical types.

Again, you falsely imply that I'm exalting myself rather than staying on the topic. Being a firm atheist surely you've come across some people who do "know the tenets of their faith". Whether or not their faith is falsely placed is not even the topic, only whether or not they know what they are supposed to believe in.

Remember I was commenting on this previous post of yours:

(November 11, 2018 at 8:13 pm)silverspine Wrote: I may claim to bean electrician, yet have little understanding of how to wire a house. I just fancy the title because i was able to install an outlet.
Similarly, many 'evangelicals' fancy the thought of eternal life because it keeps the nihilism at bay. However, the greatest commandment is to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. Therefore, those who 'dabble' in christianity cannot be the real thing. It is certainly bad news for them, yet I have understanding of my faith, so perhaps you are not fair in stereotyping everyone who claims to believe in Christ. The gospel will always be good news for those who know Christ

What does the commandment of love have to do with some Evangelical Christians being ignorant of the tenets of their faith? One can be ignorant of their tenets of faith and still love the Lord with all their heart, mind, soul and strength. And being ignorant of most Christian doctrines doesn't mean they're "dabbling" in Christianity; they could be sincere believers who really do love the Lord but just don't happen to have the intelligence, education and/or knowledge that some others have.

Silver should know this, being one of them.  Silver doesn't...however....because he's exactly the sort of person the survey sussed out.

lelz.