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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 17, 2018 at 3:26 pm
(November 17, 2018 at 3:13 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: (November 17, 2018 at 3:02 pm)Everena Wrote: I could say the same thing to you about God. And I don't want to argue about why I don't have 100% faith in the men in science anymore. Well, then at least have the honesty to tell people that any evidence which you challenge people to produce will be systematically and dogmatically rejected without a fair hearing beforehand.
Unlike you, I do not accept the findings of science on faith. I accept them because I have a technical background and have employed the scientific method in my career. Science works. Deal with it!
I agree that science works. It has brought us many useful, amazing things. I've already told you my criteria for believing evol in that specific respect and I don't lack faith in the scientific method. It is the people I lack faith in. People tend to be selfish and self aggrandizing and I'm not going to pretend to have complete faith in them to appease anyone.
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 17, 2018 at 3:27 pm
The evidence you've been presented doesn't rely on faith in the presenter.
Quite frankly, you've made it clear that he person you should lack faith in, on any of this..is yourself. You are clearly not equipped to assess the facts of evolutionary biology, or even to present a coherent description of your own beliefs.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 17, 2018 at 3:28 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2018 at 3:33 pm by Everena.)
(November 17, 2018 at 3:13 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: (November 17, 2018 at 3:09 pm)Everena Wrote: Everena: Science doesn't agree with you. Most scientists believe in God.
-and perhaps you ought to find that instructive...but you don't. There is no requirement that a person of faith deny any fact of biology, as those believing scientists can attest to.
You do that, all by your one-sies, for your own silly non-reasons. This, while we're on the subject, also puts the lie to your claim that others believe as you do.
I'm not denying it, I am just saying that I am not completely convinced OH MY GOD 
(November 17, 2018 at 3:26 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: (November 17, 2018 at 3:09 pm)Everena Wrote: Science doesn't agree with you. Most scientists believe in God. Not by much, however; to wit:
http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scien...nd-belief/
If you include social scientists (who also use the scientific method) it increases to 67% of them. And 80% of doctors in the US believe in God and the afterlife.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8318894/ns/hea..._BsNuhKjIU
(November 17, 2018 at 3:27 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: The evidence you've been presented doesn't rely on faith in the presenter.
Quite frankly, you've made it clear that he person you should lack faith in, on any of this..is yourself. You are clearly not equipped to assess the facts of evolutionary biology, or even to present a coherent description of your own beliefs.
Oh yes it does. Who knows what was left out or made to look like something it was not (like the ring species)
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 17, 2018 at 3:34 pm
(November 17, 2018 at 3:26 pm)Everena Wrote: (November 17, 2018 at 3:13 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: Well, then at least have the honesty to tell people that any evidence which you challenge people to produce will be systematically and dogmatically rejected without a fair hearing beforehand.
Unlike you, I do not accept the findings of science on faith. I accept them because I have a technical background and have employed the scientific method in my career. Science works. Deal with it!
I agree that science works. It has brought us many useful, amazing things. I've already told you my criteria for believing evol in that specific respect and I don't lack faith in the scientific method. It is the people I lack faith in. People tend to be selfish and self aggrandizing and I'm not going to pretend to have complete faith in them to appease anyone.
The great thing about science is it works whether you believe in it or not. If all scientific knowledge was destroyed it stands a good chance of being recreated exactly the same.
With religions it is the opposite. If all Christians, muslims, Mormons or whatever and their texts disappeared there would be zero chance of them being re-created.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 17, 2018 at 3:34 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2018 at 3:35 pm by Paleophyte.)
Back in the day there was thunder
And we knew not why
And the superstitious amongst us invented Thor and Zeus and Indra.
Then Ben Franklin went and flew a kite
And banished the thunder gods wholesale.
Now we have DNA and Cosmology
And we do not fully know why
And the superstitious amongst us have invented Gods of Creation and Intelligent Design.
They should go fly a kite.
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 17, 2018 at 3:34 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2018 at 3:39 pm by Gwaithmir.)
(November 17, 2018 at 3:26 pm)Everena Wrote: (November 17, 2018 at 3:13 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: Well, then at least have the honesty to tell people that any evidence which you challenge people to produce will be systematically and dogmatically rejected without a fair hearing beforehand.
Unlike you, I do not accept the findings of science on faith. I accept them because I have a technical background and have employed the scientific method in my career. Science works. Deal with it!
I agree that science works. It has brought us many useful, amazing things. I've already told you my criteria for believing evol in that specific respect and I don't lack faith in the scientific method. It is the people I lack faith in. People tend to be selfish and self aggrandizing and I'm not going to pretend to have complete faith in them to appease anyone. And this only proves what I have stated above. Your requests for evidence are intellectually dishonest because any evidence which you challenge people to produce will be systematically and dogmatically rejected without a fair hearing beforehand.
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 17, 2018 at 3:43 pm
(November 17, 2018 at 3:28 pm)Everena Wrote:
(November 17, 2018 at 3:27 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: The evidence you've been presented doesn't rely on faith in the presenter.
Quite frankly, you've made it clear that he person you should lack faith in, on any of this..is yourself. You are clearly not equipped to assess the facts of evolutionary biology, or even to present a coherent description of your own beliefs.
Oh yes it does. Who knows what was left out or made to look like something it was not (like the ring species)
Obviously not you...I've yet to see any indication that you know anything at all.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 17, 2018 at 3:56 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2018 at 4:10 pm by Angrboda.)
(November 17, 2018 at 3:09 pm)Everena Wrote: (November 17, 2018 at 3:06 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Although I could answer most of those scientific questions to a reasonable degree that is beside the point.
The main reason I do not and never have believed is that I find the idea of gods fucking stupid.
The fact that science agrees with me is just gravy.
Everena: Science doesn't agree with you. Most scientists believe in God.
Quote:A survey of scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press in May and June 2009, finds that members of this group are, on the whole, much less religious than the general public.1 Indeed, the survey shows that scientists are roughly half as likely as the general public to believe in God or a higher power. According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. By contrast, 95% of Americans believe in some form of deity or higher power, according to a survey of the general public conducted by the Pew Research Center in July 2006. Specifically, more than eight-in-ten Americans (83%) say they believe in God and 12% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Finally, the poll of scientists finds that four-in-ten scientists (41%) say they do not believe in God or a higher power, while the poll of the public finds that only 4% of Americans share this view.
(Pew Research Center)
Strictly true depending, but I think it's an exaggeration to use the word 'most' here if you are suggesting that scientists predominately believe in God. I will point out, however, that 60% in physics, astronomy, biology and the medical fields do not, per se, believe in God. If you're trying to mount an ad populum argument here, you seem to have done so rather badly, as most scientists in the fields relevant to this discussion do not in fact believe in God.
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 17, 2018 at 4:17 pm
(November 17, 2018 at 3:56 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: (November 17, 2018 at 3:09 pm)Everena Wrote: Everena: Science doesn't agree with you. Most scientists believe in God.
Quote:A survey of scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press in May and June 2009, finds that members of this group are, on the whole, much less religious than the general public.1 Indeed, the survey shows that scientists are roughly half as likely as the general public to believe in God or a higher power. According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. By contrast, 95% of Americans believe in some form of deity or higher power, according to a survey of the general public conducted by the Pew Research Center in July 2006. Specifically, more than eight-in-ten Americans (83%) say they believe in God and 12% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Finally, the poll of scientists finds that four-in-ten scientists (41%) say they do not believe in God or a higher power, while the poll of the public finds that only 4% of Americans share this view.
(Pew Research Center)
Strictly true depending, but I think it's an exaggeration to use the word 'most' here if you are suggesting that scientists predominately believe in God. I will point out, however, that 60% in physics, astronomy, biology and the medical fields do not, per se, believe in God. If you're trying to mount an ad populum argument here, you seem to have done so rather badly, as most scientists in the fields relevant to this discussion do not in fact believe in God.
Everena: Those scientists are agnostic though, they are not atheists.
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RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 17, 2018 at 4:21 pm
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2018 at 4:21 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Most atheists -are- agnostics. Ask around these boards, even...you've been having a discussion with a ton of agnostics, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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