But myths build up around real people, too.

Do I believe that king Arthur existed? Probably in some form, yes.

Do I believe he was given a sword by a lady from a lake and was spirited away to the Isle of Avalon from which he will return? No.

Same with Jesus. Possibly existed but us more likely an amalgam of people wrapped together firxa story.

(December 3, 2018 at 12:41 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: But myths build up around real people, too.

Do I believe that king Arthur existed? Probably in some form, yes.

Do I believe he was given a sword by a lady from a lake and was spirited away to the Isle of Avalon from which he will return? No.

Same with Jesus.  Possibly existed but us more likely an amalgam of people wrapped together firxa story.

There's a lot more evidence that Jesus existed than King Arthur.
Historians are even reasonably sure about the fact he was an apocalyptic preacher and had a connection to another historical figure, John the Baptizer.

Jesus existing is not only possible, it is very likely to the point of certainty.

King Arthur is just speculation

Quote: It's about history.

Your gospels are not "history."  They are mythology.

Historical people do not come back from the dead.  The Greek gods did it all the time.

I get that you are a believer and thus have your head firmly planted up your ass but I would suggest that you spend less time with your bible and work through Carrier's "On the Historicity of Jesus."  He actually discusses ALL the evidence.... something that jesus freaks working for seminaries never seem to do!

(December 3, 2018 at 12:44 pm)Cherub786 Wrote: There's a lot more evidence that Jesus existed than King Arthur.

(December 3, 2018 at 12:41 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Why, why is it a mistake, lol?  Much of the semetic religions -are- pagan mythologies.  Those kings and prophets you just mentioned are legendary..at best.  That significant mythmaking has occurred in the case of their persons is also true, even if those characters are legendary rather than mythical in the first place.

I suppose you think the Assyrian captivity of the northern kingdom of Israel in the mid 8th century BCE under the historic Assyrian rulers Sargon II and then Sennacherib was a legend too?

And then the Babylonian captivity of the Jews in the late 6th century BCE under the historic Babylonian ruler Nebuchadnezzer was a legend?

And then the conquest of Babylon by the Persians under Cyrus the Great, and the subsequent return of the Jewish exiles to their homeland?

And then the rise of the Seleucids and Antiochus Epiphanes, then the Jewish revolt of the Maccabees which freed their country and restored the Jewish monarchy?

All of this was mythology and never happened?

(December 3, 2018 at 12:44 pm)Cherub786 Wrote:

(December 3, 2018 at 12:41 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: But myths build up around real people, too.

Do I believe that king Arthur existed? Probably in some form, yes.

Do I believe he was given a sword by a lady from a lake and was spirited away to the Isle of Avalon from which he will return? No.

Same with Jesus.  Possibly existed but us more likely an amalgam of people wrapped together firxa story.

There's a lot more evidence that Jesus existed than King Arthur.
Historians are even reasonably sure about the fact he was an apocalyptic preacher and had a connection to another historical figure, John the Baptizer.

Jesus existing is not only possible, it is very likely to the point of certainty.

King Arthur is just speculation

And if the events purported to have occurred during his life had happened, we would have had records of it outside Christian books.

We don't.

And please don't dismiss the possibility of other potentially historical figures while attemptin to advocate for your own.

(December 3, 2018 at 12:45 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote: It's about history.

Your gospels are not "history."  They are mythology.

Historical people do not come back from the dead.  The Greek gods did it all the time.

I get that you are a believer and thus have your head firmly planted up your ass but I would suggest that you spend less time with your bible and work through Carrier's "On the Historicity of Jesus."  He actually discusses ALL the evidence.... something that jesus freaks working for seminaries never seem to do!

Watch the debate between Ehrman and Robert Price. It's clear how weak a case the mythicists have.

(December 3, 2018 at 12:53 pm)Cherub786 Wrote:

(December 3, 2018 at 12:45 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Your gospels are not "history."  They are mythology.

Historical people do not come back from the dead.  The Greek gods did it all the time.

I get that you are a believer and thus have your head firmly planted up your ass but I would suggest that you spend less time with your bible and work through Carrier's "On the Historicity of Jesus."  He actually discusses ALL the evidence.... something that jesus freaks working for seminaries never seem to do!

Watch the debate between Ehrman and Robert Price. It's clear how weak a case the mythicists have.

The flaw in your arguments is you think that if a historic Jesus existed there must be corroboration of the supposed miracles he performed and his supposed resurrection. But secular historians don't believe Jesus did any of that in the first place, or at least admit there is no historical evidence for it apart from Christian devotional literature. Nevertheless, the question of the historicity of Jesus has to be separated from mythology that surrounds him.
Mythology also surrounds other historical figures, especially Roman emperors like Julius Caesar, Augustus and Vespasian. That hardly impugns their historicity of those figures.

It has to be remember that the historic Jesus was not an aristocrat or a royal. He was an apocalyptic Galilean prophet in a land and society teeming with such figures. Jesus was obviously influenced by another apocalyptic prophet - John the Baptizer - who was indeed an historic figure even mentioned by Josephus.

(December 3, 2018 at 12:49 pm)Cherub786 Wrote:

(December 3, 2018 at 12:41 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Why, why is it a mistake, lol?  Much of the semetic religions -are- pagan mythologies.  Those kings and prophets you just mentioned are legendary..at best.  That significant mythmaking has occurred in the case of their persons is also true, even if those characters are legendary rather than mythical in the first place.

I suppose you think the Assyrian captivity of the northern kingdom of Israel in the mid 8th century BCE under the historic Assyrian rulers Sargon II and then Sennacherib was a legend too?

And then the Babylonian captivity of the Jews in the late 6th century BCE under the historic Babylonian ruler Nebuchadnezzer was a legend?

And then the conquest of Babylon by the Persians under Cyrus the Great, and the subsequent return of the Jewish exiles to their homeland?

And then the rise of the Seleucids and Antiochus Epiphanes, then the Jewish revolt of the Maccabees which freed their country and restored the Jewish monarchy?

All of this was mythology and never happened?

I can't help but notice that all of your "examples" are relatively late.... late 8th century BC or later. 

The difference between these 4 events and the supposed earlier exodus, patriarchs, conquest bullshit is that we have actual archaeological and or historical evidence for them. 

So what you have are historical events but in one way or another the priest class of Judah who later cobbled all this folklore together embellished these events to give their fucking god a starring role.  The "return of the exiles" is one in particular that does not stand up well to scrutiny.  Perhaps when I get time I'll get back to this and tell you how.  Even though you clearly do not want to hear anything that upsets your holy little apple cart. Sadly, your feelings on this matter of no concern to me.