(December 16, 2018 at 5:50 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: It is hilarious to me that you lot are arguing about "cheap" healthcare when the rest of the world get it for free.

If I'd had to pay for all the surgery my kids had or the cancer my mum had I would be broke.

Free??


I hardly think so.


What percentage of your paycheck goes to taxes??

(December 16, 2018 at 6:12 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(December 16, 2018 at 5:50 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: It is hilarious to me that you lot are arguing about "cheap" healthcare when the rest of the world get it for free.

If I'd had to pay for all the surgery my kids had or the cancer my mum had I would be broke.

Free??


I hardly think so.


What percentage of you paycheck goes to taxes??

You Americans are you taxation obsession. 
I pay national insurance which pays for various services and my pension, maternity leave and money from that is used to fund the NHS.
The thing is in the UK we realise that these must be funded and the best way is everyone paying for everyone else. 
I am happy to pay towards the NHS this way realising that the any other system would be madness. We do not complain about our taxes being used in this way and recognise it for the good deal it is. 
Money for healthcare is not an issue in the UK for residents because it is free at point of use, from A&E to end of life care, payed for by the rest of our society. It is a form of socialism and is why the NHS is our most loved institution.
Did you see we had a section in our Olympics celebrating it.

(December 16, 2018 at 6:12 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(December 16, 2018 at 5:50 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: It is hilarious to me that you lot are arguing about "cheap" healthcare when the rest of the world get it for free.

If I'd had to pay for all the surgery my kids had or the cancer my mum had I would be broke.

Free??


I hardly think so.


What percentage of your paycheck goes to taxes??

NZ doesn't 'flat tax' the full amount of individual or business income (I can explain this later, if you're interested), but figuring our personal income, GST and property tax, my wife and I pay about 30% of our total income in taxes.  And we're OK with that.

Boru

This is the typical reaction of a conservative when they see some public program benefiting someone other than themselves. They want it stopped. The only programs they support are ones they can personally derive benefit from.

And the problem here is entirely perceptual. The conservative en masse will end up paying those costs, whether through a Medicare For All tax, through insurance premiums, or out of their own pocket. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The conservative position is a bet that what happens to some poor sucker will not happen to them, so they need not pay. It's a foolish gamble, and one that we know, on average, does not pay off.

(December 16, 2018 at 7:46 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 16, 2018 at 6:12 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Free??


I hardly think so.


What percentage of your paycheck goes to taxes??

NZ doesn't 'flat tax' the full amount of individual or business income (I can explain this later, if you're interested), but figuring our personal income, GST and property tax, my wife and I pay about 30% of our total income in taxes.  And we're OK with that.

Boru

The US could do the same if it didn't spend half it' s budget o military spending.


What' s NZ spend?


You ready to live in a world with two military giants - Russia and China??

(December 16, 2018 at 10:33 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(December 16, 2018 at 7:46 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: NZ doesn't 'flat tax' the full amount of individual or business income (I can explain this later, if you're interested), but figuring our personal income, GST and property tax, my wife and I pay about 30% of our total income in taxes.  And we're OK with that.

Boru

The US could do the same if it didn't spend half it' s budget o military spending.


What' s NZ spend?


You ready to live in a world with two military giants - Russia and China??

The US spends 15% of its budget on defense, not 50%.  But that's not the way to look at it.  As a percentage of GDP, you spend about three and a half percent, we spend a little less than one and a half.

I already live in a world with two military giants, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

But I don't think any of this matters.  NZ clearly values a healthy populace more than the US does.  If you'd prioritize people, you could manage to have the military you want and take care of sick people, all in one go.

Boru

If our government cared more for the people, maybe the people would care more for the military. How much of the military's manpower shortage is due to a government they just don't believe in?

Quote:Free??


I hardly think so.


What percentage of you paycheck goes to taxes??

Free in the sense it's not directly paid for the individual

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Quote:The US could do the same if it didn't spend half it' s budget o military spending.


What' s NZ spend?


You ready to live in a world with two military giants - Russia and China??

We already do and one of those  powers budget is so inflated beyond reason it's hilarious

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Of course there are  those who push absurd narrative like 

Quote:Why should I pay for other peoples healthcare ?

Accept you not your paying for your own through a single system for when you need it 

Quote:Forcing people to buy from the government is wrong 

As opposed to forcing people to buy from private companies ?

Quote:Forcing doctors to work for the government is forced labor 

No it fucking isn't 

Quote:Wait times her der 

Losing your house over a surgery

The real reason single payer insurance schemes and government run medicine will never catch on in America is that we live in a society that loves litigation. 

Americans are 10 times more likely to sue for malpractice than people in Britain. 

In Japan, the legal system makes it too expensive to take a doctor or hospital to court for malpractice and the average time to take a suit to trial there is 3 years. 

In Sweden malpractice suits have caps on patient compensation and apparently they have some of the worst doctors in the free world as a result of their healthcare system. It turns out that in New Zealand patients don't actually have the right to sue for malpractice and only 40% of the people who try to sue for damages manage to wade through the legal system to be compensated at all... 

A single payer healthcare system in America would collapse under the weight of the malpractice lawsuits. If the Unaffordable Care Act is supposed to be a step towards a single payer system, then it's best to get rid of it sooner, rather than later.

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(December 16, 2018 at 5:28 pm)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:Losing your house over a surgery

Only a complete moron loses their home over a surgery.

(December 17, 2018 at 7:22 am)Maketakunai Wrote: The real reason single payer insurance schemes and government run medicine will never catch on in America is that we live in a society that loves litigation. 

Americans are 10 times more likely to sue for malpractice than people in Britain. 

In Japan, the legal system makes it too expensive to take a doctor or hospital to court for malpractice and the average time to take a suit to trial there is 3 years. 

In Sweden malpractice suits have caps on patient compensation and apparently they have some of the worst doctors in the free world as a result of their healthcare system. It turns out that in New Zealand patients don't actually have the right to sue for malpractice and only 40% of the people who try to sue for damages manage to wade through the legal system to be compensated at all... 

A single payer healthcare system in America would collapse under the weight of the malpractice lawsuits. If the Unaffordable Care Act is supposed to be a step towards a single payer system, then it's best to get rid of it sooner, rather than later.

Quote:A new study reveals that the cost of medical malpractice in the United States is running at about $55.6 billion a year - $45.6 billion of which is spent on defensive medicine practiced by physicians seeking to stay clear of lawsuits. The amount comprises 2.4% of the nation's total health care expenditure.

The True Cost Of Medical Malpractice - It May Surprise You