So, who again, was punished for this transgression? David? No, he was forgiven immediately. The woman, no. Who does that leave?

(September 27, 2011 at 5:27 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So, who again, was punished for this transgression? David? No, he was forgiven immediately. The woman, no. Who does that leave?

See? Now you're confusing God's forgiveness' as relates to salvation, with the forgiveness of David's people and God's protection of David for the evils that beset him because of his sin. Gotta go. Talk later.

Leaving before you explain how god tortured and killed the child? Bad form.

(anyone wanna call a locksmith while he's gone?)

(September 27, 2011 at 5:22 pm)Stucky Wrote: Those things are wrong becuase they eventually cause hurt to someone. More often than not. King David, who was beloved of God, lusted after a woman, had her husband killed because of that lust, and suffered greatly for his sins.

You, if you are intelligent (the jury is still out on that none), should know of many cases of hurt caused by extra-marital sex, adultery, homosexual sin, etc. Just look at the current plague of STD's in the world. Look at the babies born out of wedlock and the problems it causes. Look at the divorce rate. Sins are sins because they cause some kind of harm to someone. God doesnt want to ruin your fun, He just knows what hurts people and if you were honest, you would admit that you know it too.

Firstly, respect is earned, not given unconditionally. You're a long way off.

However, that's a better response. Ish. At least it's honest and is based on more than 'God said so'. We can now enter into a thing called a 'discussion', where we use rhetoric and reason to examine each other's points of view. That said, I'd still say it's flimsy. Here's why:

No, I don't think people can be hurt explicitly by the act of pre-marital sex. Promoting responsible safe sex is important (tell that to the Catholic church, among others), but there's nothing actually wrong with the act, is there? Assuming it's between two consenting adults, of course. Sex is fun, and sex with one person is never the same as sex with another person. What's wrong with the actual act?

If we're going to go down the 'people get hurt' route - do married people not also get hurt? Are all (or even most) marriages perfect? I certainly have plenty of examples of married people ending up hurt, but it would be a stretch (though not impossible) to blame the institution of marriage for this. You yourself mentioned the divorce rate. There are a lot of things that have caused people to experience hardships, but we wouldn't think of describing most of them as bad. And I certainly don't think there's any data that shows people get hurt more from homosexual relationships than heterosexual ones. If you think there is, I'd be very interested to see it. And plenty of children raised in married homes grow up to be utter shits as well. I think it's lazy to just blame things like being born out of wedlock.

Adultery is different because yes, an innocent third party is affected. I don't believe it should be a crime, but I'm happy enough to say that generally I think it's a bad thing.

Without using the Bible as a defence, these are the reasons sexual sins are wrong:

Rape: Rape is wrong because a person is forcefully having sex with another person, which causes emotional damage that can result in a number of responses; paranoia, depression, cutting, etc. Rape can also cause physical damage.
Incest: Incest usually causes birth defects for children, if the couple does not have children, and both adults consent to being together then according to the world's standards, this practice is approved.
Necrophilia: A corpse cannot consent to have sex with a living individual (it's a strange sort of rape).
Molestation: Forcing a child to interact in sexual activity can cause many emotional disturbances (morbid obesity, low self-esteem, timidity, and depression) as well as physical damage for the child.
Adultery: Leaves a marriage relationship with a lack of trust and a high inability to recover. Causes children to be born "illegitametly" which can be a source for scorn, abandonment, and low self-esteem.
Homosexuality: Homosexual couples must use instruments or parts of the body that were not created for conception, such as the rectum, in order to have sex. Homosexual couples cannot procreate because their genitals are the same, therefore they will never have their bloodline will end when they die.
Fornication: Sexual encounters outside of marriage cause people to catch diseases if they are not careful, (some are curable and others are not). Fornication creates unplanned pregnancies, which furthers abortion and the use of abortion. People involved in fornication can have problems with commitment and trust in relationships, which makes them feel "trapped", this feeling can cause marriages to fall apart the moment they're established.

Don't take this personally, I'm just listing some reasons why certain sexual tendacies are wrong.

Don't take this personally, homosexuals, but you're behavior is wrong because you don't have a penis/vagina.

(September 30, 2011 at 7:33 pm)salty Wrote: Homosexuality: Homosexual couples must use instruments or parts of the body that were not created for conception, such as the rectum, in order to have sex. Homosexual couples cannot procreate because their genitals are the same, therefore they will never have their bloodline will end when they die.

Did you ever stop to think sex is not meant only for procreation?

Im listing the reasons its wrong, not why its right. I dont deny that sex feels good. It does

(September 30, 2011 at 7:33 pm)salty Wrote: Without using the Bible as a defence, these are the reasons sexual sins are wrong:


Homosexuality: Homosexual couples must use instruments or parts of the body that were not created for conception, such as the rectum, in order to have sex. Homosexual couples cannot procreate because their genitals are the same, therefore they will never have their bloodline will end when they die.

But there are many hetrosexual couples that cannot have children, are they also sinful becaue their sex won't lead to children?

Quote: Incest usually causes birth defects for children,

.
Actually it does not,but MAY depending on shared recessive genes..

Brother sister marriage was a feature of the Egyptian royal family,which produced Cleopatra V11 and Ramses The Great, to mention just two. This practice was not restricted to the Egyptians.Eg Hawaiian Royal family. The Julio-Claudian bloodline also has some pretty close relationships.(especially with nieces)

Quote:The principal wives of Kings were almost always of royal blood and were often either the full or half sister of the king.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/...ygirls.htm




More recently there was that arsehole Fritzl,in Austria,who had several children with his daughter. They are all apparently physically normal

Quote:Homosexuality: Homosexual couples must use instruments or parts of the body that were not created for conception,

Of for fuck sake! Standard Christian apologist homophobia anti human sexuality not supported by evidence.

Quote:Fornication: Sexual encounters outside of marriage cause people to catch diseases if they are not careful,

Fornication? Oh please.

Another piece of apologist anti-sexualility unsupported by evidence. Yes,SOME people,inside and outside of marriage contract a range of STDs. The chances increase if a person is promiscuous and has unprotected sex. So what? That is your business exactly how?


If you are going to make sweeping claims, do make sure of your facts first, there's a good chap.Not that I care all that much,you understand.I'm just trying to help prevent you looking a complete ignoramus.Sadly,it may be too late.