(September 30, 2011 at 8:39 pm)padraic Wrote:

Quote: Incest usually causes birth defects for children,

.
Actually it does not,but MAY depending on shared recessive genes..

Brother sister marriage was a feature of the Egyptian royal family,which produced Cleopatra V11 and Ramses The Great, to mention just two. This practice was not restricted to the Egyptians.Eg Hawaiian Royal family. The Julio-Claudian bloodline also has some pretty close relationships.(especially with nieces)

Well then, sounds like Adam and Eve's children could procreate without too many birth defects, thanks for working that out for me. When you say it, it sounds much better.

People asked why it's wrong and I believe the reason: two bodies of the same gender do not properly work together is a good answer, what part of that is homophobia? I'm stating the obvious aren't I? And doesn't someone with a phobia need to have a level of fear and anxiety? Homosexuality is a personal choice, just like all choices, even though I'm saying its wrong doesn't mean people won't choose to do it and it doesn't mean I will stop them. I let people choose for themselves.

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(September 30, 2011 at 8:33 pm)Zen Badger Wrote:

(September 30, 2011 at 7:33 pm)salty Wrote: Without using the Bible as a defence, these are the reasons sexual sins are wrong:


Homosexuality: Homosexual couples must use instruments or parts of the body that were not created for conception, such as the rectum, in order to have sex. Homosexual couples cannot procreate because their genitals are the same, therefore they will never have their bloodline will end when they die.

But there are many hetrosexual couples that cannot have children, are they also sinful becaue their sex won't lead to children?

No, sex within marriage that does not yield children is not sinful. It's not sinful because the couple have the right organs to conceive, sadly their bodies are not properly functioning. Homosexuals cannot say the same thing, two vaginas will never create sperm, two penis' will never make an egg. It's literally impossible for people of the same gender to have children, but we know that desire exists, but their bodies will never let it be so.

So sin is measured by biology? Defined by biology? Dependent on biology?

Pad, I never said it was my business how people do things, but the question of why homosexuality is wrong came up and I chose to express why all of the sexual acts that are considered immoral are wrong. I understand people don't like being told they're wrong for something they believe is okay. I don't like it either and I've been told my beliefs are wrong day and night on here, guess what, I'm still a Christian, so stop acting like this is new information.

Also, when I said that fornication can lead to STD's you made it sound like I included every person who has fornicated. The word can implies it has the ability to happen, not that it will happen. I'm glad I could clear that up for you.

(September 30, 2011 at 9:02 pm)salty Wrote: Homosexuality is a personal choice, just like all choices, even though I'm saying its wrong doesn't mean people won't choose to do it and it doesn't mean I will stop them. I let people choose for themselves.

Sorry lass but what two consenting adults choose to do with each other is not wrong as long as it does not not affect anyone else.

And you have no right to condemn them for those choices just because you don't like them.

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(September 30, 2011 at 8:33 pm)Zen Badger Wrote:

(September 30, 2011 at 7:33 pm)salty Wrote: Without using the Bible as a defence, these are the reasons sexual sins are wrong:


Homosexuality: Homosexual couples must use instruments or parts of the body that were not created for conception, such as the rectum, in order to have sex. Homosexual couples cannot procreate because their genitals are the same, therefore they will never have their bloodline will end when they die.

But there are many hetrosexual couples that cannot have children, are they also sinful becaue their sex won't lead to children?

Quote:No, sex within marriage that does not yield children is not sinful. It's not sinful because the couple have the right organs to conceive, sadly their bodies are not properly functioning. Homosexuals cannot say the same thing, two vaginas will never create sperm, two penis' will never make an egg. It's literally impossible for people of the same gender to have children, but we know that desire exists, but their bodies will never let it be so.

I am well aware that they can't produce children, but how does that make it sinful?

You've told us why you believe they are wrong. There's something of a gap between an opinion and a fact. You should be aware of that by now. You've stated that "without deferring to the bible", but have you done so? I think not.

Why is it morally wrong to be unable to procreate?

(September 30, 2011 at 9:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So sin is measured by biology? Defined by biology? Dependent on biology?

Sin is measured by morality, an issue of the heart. Biologically a man can have sex with a boy, but what if a man had sex with your son, without his permission? Would you say, "well this is biologically sound, a penis fits into the rectum, have at it!" Or would you want the man locked up?

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(September 30, 2011 at 9:19 pm)Zen Badger Wrote:

(September 30, 2011 at 9:02 pm)salty Wrote: Homosexuality is a personal choice, just like all choices, even though I'm saying its wrong doesn't mean people won't choose to do it and it doesn't mean I will stop them. I let people choose for themselves.

Sorry lass but what two consenting adults choose to do with each other is not wrong as long as it does not not affect anyone else.

And you have no right to condemn them for those choices just because you don't like them.

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(September 30, 2011 at 8:33 pm)Zen Badger Wrote:

(September 30, 2011 at 7:33 pm)salty Wrote: Without using the Bible as a defence, these are the reasons sexual sins are wrong:


Homosexuality: Homosexual couples must use instruments or parts of the body that were not created for conception, such as the rectum, in order to have sex. Homosexual couples cannot procreate because their genitals are the same, therefore they will never have their bloodline will end when they die.

But there are many hetrosexual couples that cannot have children, are they also sinful becaue their sex won't lead to children?

Quote:No, sex within marriage that does not yield children is not sinful. It's not sinful because the couple have the right organs to conceive, sadly their bodies are not properly functioning. Homosexuals cannot say the same thing, two vaginas will never create sperm, two penis' will never make an egg. It's literally impossible for people of the same gender to have children, but we know that desire exists, but their bodies will never let it be so.

I am well aware that they can't produce children, but how does that make it sinful?

we'd have to get biblical for that answer, but to the question why is it wrong? The answer is: they cannot conceive and their bodies don't fit together.

The trouble with calling morality a "matter of the heart" is that it is then subjective, isn't it. Let's take your example to the other extreme. If I were to say "My heart tells me having sex with boys is fine" then it would no longer be a sin?

(btw, you're making that homosexuality/pedophilia jump that everyone loves, even if it isn't something that you've done intentionally.)

Thought we were avoiding referencing the bible? "Morality by the Authority of Newborns" followed by "The Lego Theory of Sexual Morality"

(September 30, 2011 at 7:33 pm)salty Wrote: Homosexuality: Homosexual couples must use instruments or parts of the body that were not created for conception, such as the rectum, in order to have sex. Homosexual couples cannot procreate because their genitals are the same, therefore they will never have their bloodline will end when they die.
Fornication: Sexual encounters outside of marriage cause people to catch diseases if they are not careful, (some are curable and others are not). Fornication creates unplanned pregnancies, which furthers abortion and the use of abortion. People involved in fornication can have problems with commitment and trust in relationships, which makes them feel "trapped", this feeling can cause marriages to fall apart the moment they're established.

1. Heterosexual couples also fuck in the ass.
2. What does procreation have to do with anything? I have had sex easily over five hundred times, not once has my intention been to procreate.
3. Do you think unplanned pregnancies never happen to married couples? And do you think that a marriage is by definition a better environment for a child to be raised in?
4. Prove that there is a link between 'fornication' and commitment/trust issues.
5. Why is abortion wrong?

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(September 30, 2011 at 9:30 pm)salty Wrote: Sin is measured by morality, an issue of the heart. Biologically a man can have sex with a boy, but what if a man had sex with your son, without his permission? Would you say, "well this is biologically sound, a penis fits into the rectum, have at it!" Or would you want the man locked up?

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Are you saying you can't tell the difference between two consenting adults making a private decision, and a man raping a boy? Are you serious?

Zen. I didn't condemn anyone. A question was asked and I answered it. People choose for themselves what they're going to do.

(September 30, 2011 at 9:30 pm)salty Wrote:

(September 30, 2011 at 9:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So sin is measured by biology? Defined by biology? Dependent on biology?

Sin is measured by morality, an issue of the heart. Biologically a man can have sex with a boy, but what if a man had sex with your son, without his permission? Would you say, "well this is biologically sound, a penis fits into the rectum, have at it!" Or would you want the man locked up?

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Ahh I see, you're saying that since a man can physically have sex with a young boy homosexuality is wrong. Ok, that makes sense.


But wait, since that man can also have sex with a young girl hetrosuxuality is also wrong.

(September 30, 2011 at 9:19 pm)Zen Badger Wrote:

(September 30, 2011 at 9:02 pm)salty Wrote: Homosexuality is a personal choice, just like all choices, even though I'm saying its wrong doesn't mean people won't choose to do it and it doesn't mean I will stop them. I let people choose for themselves.

Sorry lass but what two consenting adults choose to do with each other is not wrong as long as it does not not affect anyone else.

And you have no right to condemn them for those choices just because you don't like them.

---

(September 30, 2011 at 8:33 pm)Zen Badger Wrote:

(September 30, 2011 at 7:33 pm)salty Wrote: Without using the Bible as a defence, these are the reasons sexual sins are wrong:


Homosexuality: Homosexual couples must use instruments or parts of the body that were not created for conception, such as the rectum, in order to have sex. Homosexual couples cannot procreate because their genitals are the same, therefore they will never have their bloodline will end when they die.

But there are many hetrosexual couples that cannot have children, are they also sinful becaue their sex won't lead to children?

Quote:No, sex within marriage that does not yield children is not sinful. It's not sinful because the couple have the right organs to conceive, sadly their bodies are not properly functioning. Homosexuals cannot say the same thing, two vaginas will never create sperm, two penis' will never make an egg. It's literally impossible for people of the same gender to have children, but we know that desire exists, but their bodies will never let it be so.

I am well aware that they can't produce children, but how does that make it sinful?

Quote:we'd have to get biblical for that answer, but to the question why is it wrong? The answer is: they cannot conceive and their bodies don't fit together.

And that is no reason at all.