(February 20, 2019 at 1:26 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Freeze Peach grifting about some commies, lol.  "No no, my shits not alt-reich, why would anyone think that".

"Alt-right always talk about free speech, so anyone who cares about free speech is alt-right!"

Like Socrates. . . Erasmus. . . Voltaire. . . John Stuart Mill. . . Oliver Wendell Holmes. . . Noam Chomsky. . . the writers of the US constitution.

Yeah. . . all those neo-nazis and their ridiculous insistence on free speech.  To quote Noam Chomsky:

Quote:'Goebbels was in favour of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favour of free speech, then you're in favour of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise.

You're on the wrong side of this issue, Gae.  Free speech isn't just an excuse to project hatred: it's also our biggest defense against it.  More than guns, it is protection against tyranny, and more than any dogma, be it Nazi, communist, Christian or PC extremist, it is our best hope for a society without oppression.

That you don't realize that your mantra of guilt by association is a major non-sequitur, and a horrible failure of basic principles of logic, is apparent. But if you would, just for a second, realize that virtuous ideas, when they are adopted by people lacking in virtue, are STILL virtuous ideas, then you just might be able to move forward on this.

It'd have been less silly if you told me that you came up with their exact gripe all by your onesies, yet again. I think that you have some toxic influences in life that you're unwilling to or incapable of addressing. I understand that instinct, if you will, that primal urge.

(February 20, 2019 at 1:49 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: It'd have been less silly if you told me that you came up with their exact gripe all by your onesies, yet again.  I think that you have some toxic influences in life that you're unwilling to or incapable of addressing.  I understand that instinct, if you will, that primal urge.

"You're doing it again."

I knew about free speech before I'd ever heard of the alt-right, and quite possibly before I ever knew what a nazi was.

You can keep trying this non-sequitur puppet show, but if you're against free speech, then you are on the wrong side both of history and of a basic understanding of democracy.

What are the odds that you could power walk away these things you believe, do you imagine? Additionally, wouldn't it be far simpler to just say "I agree with the alt reich on this one" than to imagine a bunch of nonsense about me? Ultimately, that's why your comments tow the line of their own...isn't it?

(February 20, 2019 at 1:57 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: What are the odds that you could power walk away these things you believe, do you imagine?  Additionally, wouldn't it be far simpler to just say "I agree with the alt reich on this one" than to imagine a bunch of nonsense about me?  Ultimately, that's why your comments tow the line of their own...isn't it?

That you are making a non sequitur isn't nonsense.  "Alt-right people talk about freedom of speech, so if someone talks about free speech they are alt-right" is the most serious example of a non-sequitur that I've seen in these forums.

That you are against free speech is implicit in your attempts to associate it with an undesirable political group.

What part of that is imagined, in your view?

Look, either you're for free speech, or you think at least some forms of speech should be limited due to the sensitivities of people who might hear them? Which is it?

I don't see the point in bothering me with everything you imagine.

We can, if you like, imagine that your perceptions have been entirely unaffected by influence in the world around you and that your every thought on this matter and every other matter was wholly original to you, but even in this fantastically contrived scenario, you still end up coming to exactly the same conclusions that the alt-reich has.  You agree with them, on this issue.  Or, if you prefer..they agree with you?

Back in mere reality, it's not the case that everyone whose been groomed by the alt-reich is alt-reich....they've been working on outreach. I've previously commented on that in this thread and others. Works like this; arguing for racist shit is a monumental lift. Arguing for freeze peach, otoh, is as easy as riding a bike. If a person can conceptually turn some racist thing into a freeze peach thing they will have removed the most immediate obstacle to that message gaining acceptance.

"Jews will not replace us" plays far more poorly than "it's their/our right to say jews will not replace us". It's not actually the case that people object to these nutballs using their mouths to form words - it;s the ideas and actions those words represent...and the government isn't trampling on their right to say whatever might fall from their heads..in point of fact our government -is- full on alt-reich. All the way down to the narrative of white victimization by "the left". This is why (and demonstrates that) the alt-reich is good at outreach..but also why they're so bad at culture warring. They think that the words have the power, that everyone is just virtue signalling, that the proper reformulation of a racist utterance into a cynical argument masks or occludes the underlying fact of it's racism.

Alt-right racists like free speech, because they can say racist things without fear of serious repercussions.
Black people like free speech, because they can tell alt-right racists what they think of them without fear of serious repercussions.
Christians like free speech, because they can express their religious views without fear of serious repercussions.
Atheists like free speech, because they can debunk or openly mock religious views without fear of serious repercussions.
PC leftists like free speech, because they can talk about the cisgender white patriarchal oligarchy without fear of serious repercussions.
Cisgender white patriarchal oligarchs like free speech, because they can explain why they should continue with the status quo without fear of serious repercussions.

Now, when any of these groups are so convinced of the ideas THEY wish to express that they are willing to (or sometimes eager to) deny any of the other groups the right to speak their ideas, then there's a problem.

That you constantly focus on the alt-right whenever you hear the words "free speech" is like constantly focusing on shit whenever you hear the word "nature."

I don't think of the alt-reich when I think of free speech.  I think of the alt right whenever I see someone running their freeze peach grift.  

I get annoyed when you piss on my boot and call me a liar for saying it's not rain, but, ultimately...the fact that you think that about me indicates more about our interactions than it does what I think about when I think about free speech.  As I just posted..we can imagine that this is always coincidental, and that your thoughts on these matters are wholly original to you..but we will only be discussing something that you agree with the alt-reich about down to very specific and commonly batshit particulars.

(February 20, 2019 at 3:09 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: I don't think of the alt-reich when I think of free speech.  I think of the alt right whenever I see someone running their freeze peach grift.  

I get annoyed when you piss on my boot and call me a liar for saying it's not rain, but, ultimately...the fact that you think that about me indicates more about our interactions than it does what I think about when I think about free speech.  As I just posted..we can imagine that this is always coincidental, and that your thoughts on these matters are wholly original to you..but we will only be discussing something that you agree with the alt-reich about down to very specific and commonly batshit particulars.

Imagine whatever you want-- that's on you.  Don't put words in my mouth, and don't project your racist overcompensations onto me.  I'm literate enough to express my ideas without you speaking on my behalf, or speculating as to their source.

I feel like we need to throw rev a bone, lol?  

Here's a thought.  It's a simple fact that some people feel embattled by a greater racial understanding, or a greater weight of racial issues in the social and political spheres.  Whether all of those people should feel embattled..is, I think, a complex issue.  Some of them definitely.  Alot of them probably.  All of them, no - but that doesn't mean they won't be convinced as much...and it's a bitter pill to note that their being convinced as much could lead them to do or say things that would put them in one of the other two camps.  What's operative here, though, in this state of perceived battle, is the allure of convenient responses and talking points that argue to the contrary.  

It may be the case that people who fit that third bill can be drawn back to earth through incentive.  It's almost certainly the case that a perceived incentive sent them spiraling around the moon in the first place.

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(February 20, 2019 at 3:15 am)bennyboy Wrote:

(February 20, 2019 at 3:09 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: I don't think of the alt-reich when I think of free speech.  I think of the alt right whenever I see someone running their freeze peach grift.  

I get annoyed when you piss on my boot and call me a liar for saying it's not rain, but, ultimately...the fact that you think that about me indicates more about our interactions than it does what I think about when I think about free speech.  As I just posted..we can imagine that this is always coincidental, and that your thoughts on these matters are wholly original to you..but we will only be discussing something that you agree with the alt-reich about down to very specific and commonly batshit particulars.

Imagine whatever you want-- that's on you.  Don't put words in my mouth, and don't project your racist overcompensations onto me.  I'm literate enough to express my ideas without you speaking on my behalf, or speculating as to their source.

-and what you've expressed is that you agree with the alt-reich on this issue, down to the overcompensating crypo-racist accusations, the sjw screeching, the lefts white victimization, the pc world run amok, whiny men, and the grand communist tyranny of objecting to racists and the contents of their hate speech.

Or, that they agree with you..honestly, take you fuckin pick, I don't care and it doesn't matter.