The Middle East is ruled by dictators who fight to death for power. It is not a region governed by institutional boundaries that nobody can cross, instead it's a badland where outlaws fight to death using all means possible to stay in power once they win.

And the west knows it. And the west supports the criminals fighting in the region. And the west will pay a very heavy price one day for supporting such scum.

The mutated freak called "modern western secular society" is already crumbling with economical bubbles bursting every couple of decades turning so many westerners into homeless, broke half-humans who just got chopped by the teeth of modern society's unfair capitalist system.

You never get away from life's anti-bullshit hammer. The west is trying to fuck nature and fuck the laws of earth, but so as the Pharaohs, Mayans, Greeks, Romans, etc. All tried to fuck the laws of nature to stay on top, and all crumbled and got taken out by natural disasters or economical bubbles bursts.

Some even got buried alive by volcano ash.

The stink of the inhumane fighting outlaws in the Middle East have reached everywhere; and sent people around the battleground fleeing in terror, but the west failed them.

History will remember this era. And it will remember that few humans felt proud because of their race and decided to live in the north; watching the mess in the south; thinking they are some kind of "Gods" living atop of mount Olympus. Forgetting that back in history, their ancestors lived in the darkest dark trenches of human existence.
Forgetting that just like life was good to them; they should've repay the same favor back.

The west will pay dearly. Playing with people like toys is no "intelligence" or "knowing how to play politics"; it is "Suicide".

---

The west =/= western people.
It equals Western governments and systems and the people who support them

Was it Albert Kohall, who said that?

(March 1, 2019 at 1:59 am)no one Wrote: Was it Albert Kohall, who said that?

Who's that?

Everything is west of me.

(March 1, 2019 at 1:43 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: The Middle East is ruled by dictators who fight to death for power. It is not a region governed by institutional boundaries that nobody can cross, instead it's a badland where outlaws fight to death using all means possible to stay in power once they win.

And the west knows it. And the west supports the criminals fighting in the region. And the west will pay a very heavy price one day for supporting such scum.

The mutated freak called "modern western secular society" is already crumbling with economical bubbles bursting every couple of decades turning so many westerners into homeless, broke half-humans who just got chopped by the teeth of modern society's unfair capitalist system.

You never get away from life's anti-bullshit hammer. The west is trying to fuck nature and fuck the laws of earth, but so as the Pharaohs, Mayans, Greeks, Romans, etc. All tried to fuck the laws of nature to stay on top, and all crumbled and got taken out by natural disasters or economical bubbles bursts.

Some even got buried alive by volcano ash.

The stink of the inhumane fighting outlaws in the Middle East have reached everywhere; and sent people around the battleground fleeing in terror, but the west failed them.

History will remember this era. And it will remember that few humans felt proud because of their race and decided to live in the north; watching the mess in the south; thinking they are some kind of "Gods" living atop of mount Olympus. Forgetting that back in history, their ancestors lived in the darkest dark trenches of human existence.
Forgetting that just like life was good to them; they should've repay the same favor back.

The west will pay dearly. Playing with people like toys is no "intelligence" or "knowing how to play politics"; it is "Suicide".

---

The west =/= western people.
It equals Western governments and systems and the people who support them

Atlass, I cannot stress this enough. There is only 1 planet, just one. Unfortunately on this 1 planet all 7 billion of us live on, both friend and foe alike have weapons, and if one side does not have nukes, that side has friends who do have nukes. 

I have long since hated the GOP warmongering stance, which seems to be old white men still stuck on the WW2 win of defeating fascism. Ever since America has had stalemates like the Korean War, Nam, gulf war, Afghanistan, ect ect ect. But at the same time, we do have enemies who want to kill us. And it isn't just Arab states. Right now the orange turd is playing with fire sucking up to Kim Jong Un. And that ignorance on his part trying to play hero, wont just effect America if he makes it worse, it will effect our allies as well in South Korea and Japan.

Diplomacy isn't all or nothing. It isn't the GOP blunt warmongering fist. But it also isn't ignoring global positioning to prevent the spread of war. If America were to do what Kim wanted, and stop joint exercises with South Korea, that would be a disaster for that part of the world. A war there now would kill millions, and it could plunge the global economy into a great depression. 

I do support western governments, but that does not mean I always support the leaders whom run them. You should know that by now. I hate  Trump, he is no JFK, he is no Obama, he is no Reagan or Clinton. I support Israel's population as INDIVIDUALS, but I hate Bibi. I hate any bombastic right wing war monger. But again, I also hate theocracies and dictators. I also hate MBS and the Imams who run Iran.

I still support our  concepts of open society, the ability to vote, the ability to hold power to account.  The west by no means is perfect, but it still remains because we are open, and we have the ability to question our governments, there is far more of an opportunity to change things. I don't want the west to be colonialists like Britain and America were for centuries, but we also cannot be isolationists either.

I don't know what easy fix you think can be had, I don't think there is one. War at the drop of a hat is not the answer, but neither is 100% isolationism.

(March 1, 2019 at 1:43 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: The Middle East is ruled by dictators who fight to death for power. It is not a region governed by institutional boundaries that nobody can cross, instead it's a badland where outlaws fight to death using all means possible to stay in power once they win.

And the west knows it. And the west supports the criminals fighting in the region. And the west will pay a very heavy price one day for supporting such scum.

The mutated freak called "modern western secular society" is already crumbling with economical bubbles bursting every couple of decades turning so many westerners into homeless, broke half-humans who just got chopped by the teeth of modern society's unfair capitalist system.

You never get away from life's anti-bullshit hammer. The west is trying to fuck nature and fuck the laws of earth, but so as the Pharaohs, Mayans, Greeks, Romans, etc. All tried to fuck the laws of nature to stay on top, and all crumbled and got taken out by natural disasters or economical bubbles bursts.

Some even got buried alive by volcano ash.

The stink of the inhumane fighting outlaws in the Middle East have reached everywhere; and sent people around the battleground fleeing in terror, but the west failed them.

History will remember this era. And it will remember that few humans felt proud because of their race and decided to live in the north; watching the mess in the south; thinking they are some kind of "Gods" living atop of mount Olympus. Forgetting that back in history, their ancestors lived in the darkest dark trenches of human existence.
Forgetting that just like life was good to them; they should've repay the same favor back.

The west will pay dearly. Playing with people like toys is no "intelligence" or "knowing how to play politics"; it is "Suicide".

If you want to believe in karma, then you're following the wrong religion. And that would even be accepting that your bizarre views on history and the world have any merit, which they generally don't. You're a fucking nutter, Atlass.

Pay???

“The mutated freak called "modern western secular society" is already crumbling with economical bubbles bursting every couple of decades turning so many westerners into homeless, broke half-humans who just got chopped by the teeth of modern society's unfair capitalist system.”

And yet living in ‘the west’ means you live in a relative technological and medical wonderland which has some the greatest protection of individual rights ever seen in the history of human society and civilisation, and where equity between peoples is similarly closer than its ever been.

Not perfect but hey, give me the ‘the west’ over almost every other society in existence throughout time any day.

But hey is there’s something better feel free to propose it I guess. At least in the west you won’t get shot just for disagreeing with the government I guess. I mean you can even try and vote them out sometimes as well. Imagine that?

(March 1, 2019 at 4:42 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: “The mutated freak called "modern western secular society" is already crumbling with economical bubbles bursting every couple of decades turning so many westerners into homeless, broke half-humans who just got chopped by the teeth of modern society's unfair capitalist system.”

And yet living in ‘the west’ means you live in a relative technological and medical wonderland which has some the greatest protection of individual rights ever seen in the history of human society and civilisation, and where equity between peoples is similarly closer than its ever been.

Not perfect but hey, give me the ‘the west’ over almost every other society in existence throughout time any day.

But hey is there’s something better feel free to propose it I guess. At least in the west you won’t get shot just for disagreeing with the government I guess. I mean you can even try and vote them out sometimes as well. Imagine that?

 Money where mouth is:

There are three and only three places I would live if I could't live in Oz ; Canada, because I have dual citizenship and because it's a beautiful country with a great standard of living, with great programmes of social justice. IE Health, and welfare, Then England , for similar reasons, finally southern Ireland , for pure sentiment.

Would not live in America on a bet, and they have a pretty good standard of living.(as long as you're not a child, poor, sick or old) I'd be happy in most western and northern European countries.

Would not consider: South and Central America, The Middle East,All of Asia, including the PRC and India or the entire African continent.

 As a senior, I am exceedingly grateful that I had the extreme good fortune to be born in Australia. I am acutely aware that I have so much, and that the majority of human beings do not. I understand the injustice of that. What am I supposed to do? Sell everything I have and give it to the poor?  Certainly a romantic gesture, but also ineffably stupid; all it would accomplish would be to allow me to feel virtuous.

As for poverty; if the religious  believers of the world actually lived by their putative beliefs, there would be no poverty, at least in the West., and a lot less in every other country.  My observation has long been that the devoutly religious are fucking hypocrites. I don't usually worry about it to much. Regardless of what Jesus allegedly said, (more than once) hypocrisy is part of the human condition. Society simply could not function if everyone was honest all the time..--who gets to judge the limits? Not I.

OF Course I am aware Western civilisation will eventually  crumble, as all civilisations do. It is also my perception that the US is already in decline. But actually crumbling? I don't see that. What's his name's rather shrill hyperbole doesn't make it so..

Selfish old sod that I am, It is my fervent hope that I will be dead long before climate change  becomes a major personal inconvenience, (that may be a close thing)  and before my civilisation crumbles to dust.

(March 1, 2019 at 8:23 am)Brian37 Wrote: Atlass, I cannot stress this enough. There is only 1 planet, just one. Unfortunately on this 1 planet all 7 billion of us live on, both friend and foe alike have weapons, and if one side does not have nukes, that side has friends who do have nukes. 

I have long since hated the GOP warmongering stance, which seems to be old white men still stuck on the WW2 win of defeating fascism. Ever since America has had stalemates like the Korean War, Nam, gulf war, Afghanistan, ect ect ect. But at the same time, we do have enemies who want to kill us. And it isn't just Arab states. Right now the orange turd is playing with fire sucking up to Kim Jong Un. And that ignorance on his part trying to play hero, wont just effect America if he makes it worse, it will effect our allies as well in South Korea and Japan.

Diplomacy isn't all or nothing. It isn't the GOP blunt warmongering fist. But it also isn't ignoring global positioning to prevent the spread of war. If America were to do what Kim wanted, and stop joint exercises with South Korea, that would be a disaster for that part of the world. A war there now would kill millions, and it could plunge the global economy into a great depression. 

I do support western governments, but that does not mean I always support the leaders whom run them. You should know that by now. I hate  Trump, he is no JFK, he is no Obama, he is no Reagan or Clinton. I support Israel's population as INDIVIDUALS, but I hate Bibi. I hate any bombastic right wing war monger. But again, I also hate theocracies and dictators. I also hate MBS and the Imams who run Iran.

I still support our  concepts of open society, the ability to vote, the ability to hold power to account.  The west by no means is perfect, but it still remains because we are open, and we have the ability to question our governments, there is far more of an opportunity to change things. I don't want the west to be colonialists like Britain and America were for centuries, but we also cannot be isolationists either.

I don't know what easy fix you think can be had, I don't think there is one. War at the drop of a hat is not the answer, but neither is 100% isolationism.

The west didn't cure or treat the colonizing hunger, it just stopped doing it to other westerners after WW2, but it is going on just like before in the regions outside the west.

Take the Middle East: each state there is a mere western colony; and just few years back we saw how Russia had a war with the U.S over its colony: Syria.

Colonization never stopped; it just mutated and took a different form; after it caused 2 world wars in Europe.

The easy, reasonable and probably the only fix, is to terminate nuclear weapons through a global treaty, and end the colonization mentality that still remain in western constitutions. The foreign policy of the western model -that China and Russia also follow- has a very terrible sickness in its laws.

---

(March 1, 2019 at 8:51 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

If you want to believe in karma, then you're following the wrong religion.  And that would even be accepting that your bizarre views on history and the world have any merit, which they generally don't.  You're a fucking nutter, Atlass.

I might not believe in karma but I totally believe in a God rewarding good deeds and punishing the evil ones.
It makes total sense that "you reap what you sewed" in so many times, and good years worth nothing the day pain replace them. The pain of a single hour can wipe the joy of centuries. Apply that to nations rising and falling, you won't find my views nutty.

---

(March 1, 2019 at 4:42 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: “The mutated freak called "modern western secular society" is already crumbling with economical bubbles bursting every couple of decades turning so many westerners into homeless, broke half-humans who just got chopped by the teeth of modern society's unfair capitalist system.”

And yet living in ‘the west’ means you live in a relative technological and medical wonderland which has some the greatest protection of individual rights ever seen in the history of human society and civilisation, and where equity between peoples is similarly closer than its ever been.

Not perfect but hey, give me the ‘the west’ over almost every other society in existence throughout time any day.

But hey is there’s something better feel free to propose it I guess. At least in the west you won’t get shot just for disagreeing with the government I guess. I mean you can even try and vote them out sometimes as well. Imagine that?

Living with the wealthy, stronger faction is of course better for the current moment. It is a wonderland built on the skulls and bones of millions of foreign poor souls that worked 20 hours a day for 20 cents a day so a western teenager can hold their iphone and take selfies with it.

That's a garden built for very few; a selected few even, and the selection itself is random, chaotic and backward -it's a civilization that selects people based on their place of birth-.

Nothing "new" came after WW2; our ancestors done the same in Rome; their empire was even bigger than today's limited; small closed borders. Their tools were less but they still managed to build "wonders" that whole humanity looks at with awe.

The dictators that roam my land came because the western powers let them; just like I said in my OP, who's helping the Sauds or Al-Sisi to kill revolts other than the West?. It's the mentality of colonization that led some western powers to play with other humans like soccer, then call that playing "the secular art of politics".

It's a garden; just like Rome was, just like Ancient Egypt was, but we all know how these ended.