(October 6, 2011 at 7:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: 1. Sexual identity is something which people can be unsure of. In adolescence you may question your orientation, which seems natural. Holding a position that homosexuality is as healthy for the species as hetrosexuality may undermine the success of the species.

Perhaps when the species is in low numbers...at the moment humans are a threat to their continuation BECAUSE of their high reproduction rate

(October 6, 2011 at 7:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: 2. Non question for me/ no difference.

There is no difference other than ensuring the heterosexuals offspring are able to grow and contribute to society. Homosexual couples are just as capable in the "parenting" department as Heterosexual couples

(October 6, 2011 at 7:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: 3. See 1.

Is a non-argument. Atheists are probably more 'moral' than theists. But that is just my opinion based on personal experience...maybe I have met many horrible theists over the past 50 years or so And not to many of the "nice ones"

Quote:I may take a stab at this one, though it will be my last post for the night. homosexuallity attacks the very foundation that marriage and family are based upon. the unnatural union of two men, or two women, degrades the value that family gives to society.

I don't think it does. People loving each other, same sex or not. It won't devalue anything, if anything it promotes freedom. The freedom to love the other, same sex or not. Fact is, peoples love for each other has nothing to do with you. I'm pretty sure it doesn't affect you in anyway, so why have any kind of problem with it? In history, like ancient Rome and Greece, homosexuality was common and very much accepted, it was only till Christians came about that started attacking homosexuals. I say, leave them be.

Quote:ultimatly though, you cannot get an answer to this. I am new to this, but i have already read more than one post where an atheist said they were "good people", but to who's standards, because if you dont believe in any form of "god", and have no standard to base right or wrong of of but your own, how do you know what is what?

Morality does not come from religion, it's been demonstrated hundreds of times. I've been an atheist all my life, never have I committed a single crime.
Atheists do have ideals and principles, we can think for ourselves and use reason. Morality can come from intelligence and with the ability to use reason, we can and are just as moral as the next guy.

Apparently god hates homosexuality SO much that he has created most species with a homosexual component.

On average about 10% though this can vary significantly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_...in_animals

These bits were very interesting......

Quote:An estimated one-quarter of all black swans pairings are homosexual and they steal nests, or form temporary threesomes with females to obtain eggs, driving away the female after she lays the eggs.[34][35] More of their cygnets survive to adulthood than those of different-sex pairs, possibly due to their superior ability to defend large portions of land. The same reasoning has been applied to male flamingo pairs raising chicks

Quote:Courtship, mounting, and full anal penetration between bulls has been noted to occur among American Bison. The Mandan nation Okipa festival concludes with a ceremonial enactment of this behavior, to "ensure the return of the buffalo in the coming season."[53] Also, mounting of one female by another is common among cattle

And don't get me started on Bonobo's, fucking for them is just a casual hello.

It is increasingly obvious that god doesn't know what he wants.

Either that or the bible was written by old men with an agenda.

The stupid relig-O-fucks who continue to decry homosexuality are some of the biggest asshats on the planet. They have given us Catholic priests who fuck little boys, bishops who tell people in Africa that condoms are immoral and who believe AIDS is a cleansing, and who maintain that abusive relationships are still inviolable so long as the woman is only getting bruised a little. They have stultified education by resisting the teaching of evolution, have extolled the virtues of such bullshit as ID, and would happily whitewash any society they enter, even if it means ruining the cultures of the indigenous peoples they have infected with their tripe.

If its just a question of procreation all we really need is one really horney guy.

(October 6, 2011 at 8:09 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(October 6, 2011 at 7:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: 1. Sexual identity is something which people can be unsure of. In adolescence you may question your orientation, which seems natural. Holding a position that homosexuality is as healthy for the species as hetrosexuality may undermine the success of the species.

Perhaps when the species is in low numbers...at the moment humans are a threat to their continuation BECAUSE of their high reproduction rate

Good point! So that's the species sorting itself out.

(October 6, 2011 at 8:09 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(October 6, 2011 at 7:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: 2. Non question for me/ no difference.

There is no difference other than ensuring the heterosexuals offspring are able to grow and contribute to society. Homosexual couples are just as capable in the "parenting" department as Heterosexual couples

Agreed. Good role models are important too.

(October 6, 2011 at 8:09 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(October 6, 2011 at 7:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: 3. See 1.

Is a non-argument. Atheists are probably more 'moral' than theists. But that is just my opinion based on personal experience...maybe I have met many horrible theists over the past 50 years or so And not to many of the "nice ones"

In actuality I agree with you.

(October 6, 2011 at 11:38 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(October 6, 2011 at 8:09 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(October 6, 2011 at 7:59 am)fr0d0 Wrote: 1. Sexual identity is something which people can be unsure of. In adolescence you may question your orientation, which seems natural. Holding a position that homosexuality is as healthy for the species as hetrosexuality may undermine the success of the species.

Perhaps when the species is in low numbers...at the moment humans are a threat to their continuation BECAUSE of their high reproduction rate

Good point! So that's the species sorting itself out.

Evolution sorting shit out, baby

Looking back on it, this whole conversation just makes me sick. Homosexuality is most certainly NOT a choice. This isn't a theory, or a new fangled idea, it is a stone cold fact of life and nature. If your belief in god won't allow you to see it that way, perhaps it is god you should question, and not homosexuals. There is plenty of evidence that genetics are responsible for homosexuality, just as it is responsible for hair color, skin color, and height. If you don't believe homosexuality is not a choice, then what you're essentially saying is that being brunette, pale, and short is also a choice.

Homosexual marriage is against what you, as a bigoted christian perceive marriage to be, it does not necessarily reflect the views of others, and christians are going to have to get it through their thick skulls that their religion and ideals, are not the only one's that exist, they aren't even the one's that matter most. Before I read another christian's post that says homosexuality is unnatural, I want to see proof to go along with that statement. SCRIPTURE DOESN'T COUNT.

Show proof of why it isn't natural among humans, as well as, why it is unnatural for dolphins, bulls, and all the other animals who are capable of being gay. Evidence has been presented in this thread that clearly shows that it is natural, so either disprove that, or shut up.

Most of you know I was married to my gay best friend for 8 years, and thankfully so. He realized he was gay at the age of 5, though he didn't know what to call it. He NEVER had sex with a woman, though women threw themselves at him every day. I don't know any man who would be able to continue CHOOSING to be gay under those conditions. It's simple. He was born gay, and couldn't even become slightly aroused by the thought of sex with a woman. Despite what your book or your beliefs say, homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality, and maybe not tomorrow or the next day, but some day, gay people in this country will have the same marital rights as everyone. So either get over it, or get out. Isn't that what right wingers loved to say during the bush years?

To find a nation where gay people are as hated as you want them to be, I suggest starting your search in the middle east. Good luck with that!

(October 6, 2011 at 11:43 am)aleialoura Wrote: If you don't believe homosexuality is not a choice, then what you're essentially saying is that being brunette, pale, and short is also a choice.

Well, I know I definitely choose to be this handsome

Salty, the term "throw down" has physical connotations and I have to operate under the belief that you are aware of what terms mean before you use them. As for telling her she can bring pepper spray because she may be afraid of you, let's not get out of hand here.

If this thread continues to be derailed into taunts and race, rather than homosexuality and heaven, I will close it. If you do not have friendly intentions, do not suggest meet ups.