(March 19, 2019 at 5:36 pm)CDF47 Wrote: (March 19, 2019 at 12:56 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: CDF000
That's a pretty stupid thing to say.
1. If your deity can be said to be "perfectly holy and just" then there exists a standard of perfection and justice, which of necessity exists APART from him, and which he could not have created. Where did that standard come from ? If he's just perfect because he possesses the attributes he does, and because of what he is, ... then your standard is meaningless. (Euthyphro's Dilemma). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
2. The Bible tells you otherwise. I see you don't really :
a. know the Bible much, AND
b. don't believe it.
Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
I form light and create darkness;
I make well-being and create calamity;
I am the Lord, who does all these things.
ESV
Blatant version shopping.
If your god is so marvelous, why exactly are there different versions anyway?
Anyway, lets do the version shopping thing
Isiah 45:7
KJ21 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things.
ASV I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
AMP The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing peace and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.
AMPC I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical] evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things.
BRG I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
CSB I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
CEB I form light and create darkness, make prosperity and create doom; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
CJB I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, Adonai, do all these things.
CEV I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the Lord, do all of this.
DARBY forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.
DRA I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.
ERV I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things.
ESV I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
ESVUK I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.
EXB I make the light and create the darkness. I bring ·peace [prosperity; wholeness; C Hebrew shalom], and I ·cause [create] ·troubles [disaster; calamity]. I, the Lord, do all these things.
GNV I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
GW I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the Lord, do all these things.
GNT I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the Lord, do all these things.
HCSB I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, Yahweh, do all these things.
ICB I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the Lord, do all these things.
ISV “I form light and create darkness, I make goodness and create disaster. I am the Lord, who does all these things.
JUB I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil: I am the LORD that does all this.
KJV I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
AKJV I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
LEB I form light and I create darkness; I make peace and I create evil; I am Yahweh; I do all these things.
TLB I form the light and make the dark. I send good times and bad. I, Jehovah, am he who does these things.
MEV I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.
NOG I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, Yahweh, do all these things.
NABRE I form the light, and create the darkness, I make weal and create woe; I, the Lord, do all these things.
NASB The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these.
NCV I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the Lord, do all these things.
NET I am the one who forms light and creates darkness; the one who brings about peace and creates calamity. I am the Lord, who accomplishes all these things.
NIRV I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.
NIV I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.
NIVUK I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.
NKJV I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’
NLV I make light and I make darkness. I bring good and I make trouble. I am the Lord Who does all these things.
NLT I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the Lord, am the one who does these things.
NRSV I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things.
NRSVA I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things.
NRSVACE I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things.
NRSVCE I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things.
OJB I form ohr, and create choshech; I make shalom, and create rah; I Hashem worketh all these things.
RSV I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the Lord, who do all these things.
RSVCE I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the Lord, who do all these things.
TLV I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things.
VOICE I form light and create darkness; I make what is good, happy, and healthy, and I create woe. I, the Eternal One, make them one and all.
WEB I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
WYC forming light, and making darknesses, making peace, and forming evil; I am the Lord, doing all these things.
YLT Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'
Interesting, isn't it. Almost as if god's word were subject to men's will. Almost as if it were entirely made up.
Also interesting is that "evil" is used in the oldest texts but gets progressively watered down as the superstitious try to shoehorn their god into what they want him to be as opposed to what he really is.
Besides, you can add more clear statements from other parts of the vile tome.
Behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall. 1 Kings 14:10
Behold, this evil is of the Lord. 2 Kings 6:33
What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? Job 2:10
Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? Lamententations 3:38
Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Amos 3:6
See CDF, your bible not only makes it clear that your god created evil, it's proud of it. And so are you.
That is why you struggled to condemn slavery as immoral, for example. You have rejected simple human decency and honesty for a magic book which instructs you to accept immoral things which you would not yourself agree with. I put it to you several times that I believe that "there is no time, place or circumstance under which slavery is moral". Wow did you try to wriggle and squirm out of that. The upshot is that you could not bring yourself to agree with that statement. Sure, you jumped through all the well worn hoops. "indentured servitude" (still immoral). "those were the times" (still immoral). "god's ways are not our ways" (still immoral). And so forth.
I could call you many names, but I wont. Somewhere under that thin veneer of religiosity is a real person trying to escape from the slavery of the magic book. I hope that person gets there and finds freedom. Whoever he is, I will shake his hand gladly.
Sadly, there is little hope such a thing will ever happen.
