My point, the lock, just like a the law, are for the people who are honest. The dishonest do not care.

(March 21, 2019 at 5:24 pm)no one Wrote: My point, the lock, just like a the law, are for the people who are honest. The dishonest do not care.

Locks area also to dissuade the casual opportunistic thief.  Ever security doors will not deter a professional if he wants to get in.

I live in a working class suburb. No cash and nothing worth stealing.Describes most houses around me. Plus, most crims  prefer not to work in their own area. It's not morality, simply practical; they might be recognised.

Unfortunately, criminals don't care if guns are illegal. That being said, there should be sensible restrictions on specific types of firearms everywhere, in my opinion. I like guns, but I'm certainly no gun-nut. And it makes me a little hopeful to see them taking such swift action in response to this horrendous incident. I'm not sure what it will accomplish, but I'm also not sure how many shootings like this NZ has even had.

I think people should be allowed to have basic handguns, shotguns and rifles. But when you start getting into wanting an AR-15 or an M4 with a 100-round drum, laser sights and flashlights, etc. etc... I have to ask... why the hell would anyone need that, ever?

But the NRA here throws around too much money for these types of questions to ever be seriously asked in the US and it's a shame.

(March 21, 2019 at 9:18 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: Unfortunately, criminals don't care if guns are illegal. That being said, there should be sensible restrictions on specific types of firearms everywhere, in my opinion. I like guns, but I'm certainly no gun-nut. And it makes me a little hopeful to see them taking such swift action in response to this horrendous incident. I'm not sure what it will accomplish, but I'm also not sure how many shootings like this NZ has even had.

I think people should be allowed to have basic handguns, shotguns and rifles. But when you start getting into wanting an AR-15 or an M4 with a 100-round drum, laser sights and flashlights, etc. etc... I have to ask... why the hell would anyone need that, ever?

But the NRA here throws around too much money for these types of questions to ever be seriously asked in the US and it's a shame.

 
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Neither NZ nor Oz are the US. We both lack the loopy gun culture of the US.

We do not have a  second amendment. There is no right to have a firearm. Consequently, the governments of both nations focus on protecting our citizens. Not on the non existent rights of gun owners. 

Our attitudes tend to be along the lines that no one living in in one of our cities needs a firearm.

The argument that only criminals will the have guns is specious, I think originally from the appalling NRA.

Plus; So fucking what?  Criminals are going to come your house  to kill you? How many enemies do YOU have? Criminals are going to start shooting people in the streets? True, they do tend to shoot each other. A fact that  bothers men jot a jot or a tittle.

Australia  introduced strong gun laws after an horrendous mass shooting at Pt Arthur in 1996. Since that time, there have been no mass shootings in Australia. It has also become rare for firearms to be used in armed robbery. Weapons include ;hammers, screw drivers, knives , swords, and once, a syringe allegedly filled with HIV (it wasn't)--all have the disadvantage of being exceedingly difficult to seriously injure more than one person, unlike a firearm 

Below two short clips of Jim Jeffries  on gun control'.  Jim is an Aussie comic, living in the US where he has a popular TV show on cable, I think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH...jreload=10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-...jreload=10

(March 21, 2019 at 9:42 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Neither NZ nor Oz are the US. We both lack the loopy gun culture of the US.

I'm well aware.

(March 21, 2019 at 9:42 pm)fredd bear Wrote: We do not have a  second amendment. There is no right to have a firearm. Consequently, the governments of both nations focus on protecting our citizens. Not on the non existent rights of gun owners. 

Okay. Here, gun owners DO have very real rights backed by the United States constitution.

(March 21, 2019 at 9:42 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Our attitudes tend to be along the lines that no one living in in one of our cities needs a firearm.

And you're allowed to think that.

(March 21, 2019 at 9:42 pm)fredd bear Wrote: The argument that only criminals will the have guns is  specious, I think originally from the appalling NRA.

And yet, in some cases this turns out to be exactly what happens. Chicago certainly has some strict gun-laws, though not anywhere near the strictest, despite what the NRA loves to suggest. How are things going for them in Chicago? How many Chicagoans have been killed by gun violence this year? The idea that, hey, it's just criminals killing criminals, is a nice little story to tell yourself. But how true is it?

(March 21, 2019 at 9:42 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Plus; So fucking what?  Criminals are going to come your house  to kill you? How many enemies do YOU have? Criminals are going to start shooting people in the streets? True, they do tend to shoot each other. A fact that  bothers men jot a jot or a tittle.

So, you're suggesting that someone has to have personal enemies in order to be the victim of a gun crime? I hope not, as that's complete nonsense. We see the same thing with bans on drugs... now, criminal gangs run drug sales and have almost complete control of the market.

This is the same type of thinking that says we should let the NSA listen to all of our correspondence because, Hey, if I'm not doing anything wrong, what's there to be worried about?

(March 21, 2019 at 9:42 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Australia  introduced strong gun laws after an horrendous mass shooting at Pt Arthur in 1996. Since that time, there have been no mass shootings in Australia. It has also become rare for firearms to be used in armed robbery. Weapons include ;hammers, screw drivers, knives , swords, and once, a syringe allegedly filled with HIV (it wasn't)--all have the disadvantage of being exceedingly difficult to seriously injure more than one person, unlike a firearm 

And I hope the same happens for NZ. I hope they never experience something like that again. Unfortunately, I'm not hopeful that any kind of serious ban on firearms would have the same affect in the US. That being said, we need some sort of change here, for sure. I'm not at all against the regulation of firearms or a ban on certain kinds of firearms but we need to be realistic about what is and isn't going to work.

I'm for gun control. But to think that an all-out ban is the solution is total nonsense not even worth entertaining. Luckily, I think very FEW people here in the States actually think we should ban all guns.

I am glad to see NZ reacted so quickly, but being American it makes me wonder, how many more shootings will we have until we react with the same swiftness?

I'm not so naive to think that bans like this will prevent every disaster, but I honestly have to wonder why anyone would need a weapon capable of mowing down dozens of people. I can think of no situation where it might be necessary in day-to-day living. These aren’t exactly the kind of weapon you’d walk around with for self-defense.

So I don’t see how this hurts the average citizen—yes criminals will find ways to acquire these weapons illegally, but at least it can’t be done as easily as before. They have to take more steps, riskier steps, more chances to get caught.

It’s not a fix-all solution—there’s no such thing for this issue. But there’s also absolutely no need for people to be able to but a weapon whose sole purpose is to kill many, quickly.

Quote:In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.

-Dan Hodges.

"Our attitudes tend to be along the lines that no one living in in one of our cities needs a firearm.


And you're allowed to think that. "

-and you have poof of that patronising claim? IE that we are mistaken about how we see our own country?

Again, Oz is not the US. Perhaps spend some time here before making fatuous claims about my country, and our society.

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Don't care how the US is seen by other countries, don't look at the links.

In a survey I've just read Oz is the 12th safest country in which to live.The US is rated 49th.

https://safearound.com/danger-rankings/

In this Global Finance list, Australia is ranked 18th. The US at 85th

https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/non-ec...tries-2019

If you took all the guns away tomorrow, people would still kill each other. Yes, guns make it easier to produce mass casualties, but so do explosives. People have killed each other since people have been on the planet. They will continue to do so. A gun, is just a tool. Guns aren't the problem, people are.

(March 21, 2019 at 10:31 pm)Nakara Wrote: I'm not so naive to think that bans like this will prevent every disaster, but I honestly have to wonder why anyone would need a weapon capable of mowing down dozens of people. I can think of no situation where it might be necessary in day-to-day living. These aren’t exactly the kind of weapon you’d walk around with for self-defense.

So I don’t see how this hurts the average citizen—yes criminals will find ways to acquire these weapons illegally, but at least it can’t be done as easily as before. They have to take more steps, riskier steps, more chances to get caught.

It’s not a fix-all solution—there’s no such thing for this issue. But there’s also absolutely no need for people to be able to but a weapon whose sole purpose is to kill many, quickly.

I agree completely. Some of the weapons these people have here in the States are just ridiculous.

(March 21, 2019 at 10:47 pm)fredd bear Wrote: "Our attitudes tend to be along the lines that no one living in in one of our cities needs a firearm.


And you're allowed to think that. "

-and you have poof of that patronising claim?  IE that we are mistaken about how we see our own country?

What's with the attitude? I'm literally just saying you're allowed to think what you want. Chill the fuck out dude. Maybe in NZ and Australia that attitude makes total sense - and that's fine. I'm literally saying, "you're allowed to think that."

(March 21, 2019 at 10:47 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Again, Oz is not the US.

Um.. I'm well aware that "Oz" is not the US.

(March 21, 2019 at 10:47 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Perhaps spend some time here before making fatuous claims  about my country, and our society.

Once again, you need to chill. No one made "fatuous claims" about your country or your society. Take the stick out of your ass.

(March 21, 2019 at 10:47 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Don't care how the US is seen by other countries, don't look at the links.

I'm well aware of statistics like this. It's a sad situation we have here. Not sure why you're getting into some pissing match about who is safer. No one is claiming the state of things here in America is good.

Chill the fuck out dude.

I literally said I'm glad to see NZ act so swiftly and implied I'd like to see the same type of swift action taken in the States. If anything, I admire NZ for this decision. Who the fuck shit in your cereal?

(March 21, 2019 at 11:01 pm)no one Wrote: If you took all the guns away tomorrow, people would still kill each other. Yes, guns make it easier to produce mass casualties, but so do explosives. People have killed each other since people have been on the planet. They will continue to do so. A gun, is just a tool. Guns aren't the problem, people are.

The sentiment behind this thinking is totally undeniable. However, I think it's an overly simplistic view that doesn't quite paint the full picture. I agree though, simply taking guns away wouldn't do anything. People here in the US would probably rebel to the point where the military would have to get involved. Granted, that's pure speculation, but i think you'd be a bit naive to suggest otherwise. For better or worse, we have a serious pro-gun culture here in the States and the gun-nuts mean it when they say "over my dead body."

An all-out ban on firearms will NEVER happen in the States, at least not in our lifetime or our grandchildren's lifetime. However, as I've said before, very, very few people actually suggest an all-out ban. All the more reason why it'll never happen; no one actually wants an all-out ban. This is mostly propaganda spread by the right that liberals want to "take the guns away."