(April 29, 2019 at 2:35 am)Losty Wrote:

(April 29, 2019 at 1:51 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Politicians deliver whatever felatio they think will win them votes.

If you think any particular party " stands for something" you haven't been paying attention.

You completely dodged the question. This isn’t about politicians or about what they may or may not stand for. This is about people who are clearly so ashamed that their party voted against black voting rights that they’re willing to pretend like it was the other party. People are feigning ignorance about how people switched parties just so they can pretend they don’t belong to a party that voted against civil rights. I want to know why. If you’re proud to be of that party, then own it. If you’re ashamed enough to try and shift the blame to someone else, then why are you a member of that party. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

I didn' t dodge the question.

I don' t affiliate with ANY party - because all a party is, is a label a politician sticks after their name to trick the public into voting for them.

It' s TOTALLY about politicians - as the public's perception that there is a difference between parties serves the politician not the public.

The OP is absolutely correct.

This trend by the GOP and their voters to claim they are the party of Lincoln is a vile lie. Today's right wing Republicans were a combo reaction to segregation ending and Nixon's Southern Strategy. The parties flipped on race and social issues in the 60s and 70s. Lincoln, nor Teddy for that matter could run on today's Republican party.

It is a dishonest argument on their part and a dangerous lie on top of that.

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(April 28, 2019 at 9:58 pm)emilsein Wrote: Do you think the democrats really give a damn about minorities anymore than the republicans do? I think the system is rigged so that low income types will vote for them for services and such, I have recently opened my eyes and no longer consider myself as liberal as I once way.

I am sick of this. The two parties are NOT the same. 

You have to take into account 40 years of GOP gerrymandering and Reagan's busting the air traffic control unions. As voters on the left, we gave up, and became apathetic with local and state elections in that time. That allowed the GOP to skew the map even worse in that time. That has put our politicians in the position of being forced to play their game. 

Dems cannot win unless we think long term, that is how the GOP thinks and how they have controlled the narrative for so long. Our politicians are only as strong as the long term thinking supporters give them. 

Dems most certainly care about minorities. What our politicians need is more support and a bigger map in all local, state and midterm elections. It does no good to bitch about what you are not getting if you are doing nothing to get it.

The GOP dominates long term because they think and plan long term. If Dems to that too, we can win. I am sick of voters blaming politicians when number of voters are what it takes to win.

(April 29, 2019 at 7:34 am)onlinebiker Wrote: I didn' t dodge the question.

I don' t affiliate with ANY party - because all a party is, is a label a politician sticks after their name to trick the public into voting for them.

It' s TOTALLY about politicians - as the public's perception that there is a difference between parties serves the politician not the public.

Sadly, I concur that the differences between the two parties are more superficial than folks like to admit. But I don't blame the politicians. I blame the people responsible for electing the politicians: the general population.

Now, I'm not saying the general population shouldn't be in charge of putting government officials in power. There is no better group than they.

I just wish they were more qualified (ie better educated) for the job. (It is a rather important job, after all.)

See the thread about overeducation to see why the free market will not allow a more qualified general population. That's a catch 22 if I ever saw one. Have fun complaining about "those shitty politicians" because I can only see one way to fix that problem. And it ain't gonna be fixed by the looks of things.

(April 29, 2019 at 10:54 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(April 29, 2019 at 7:34 am)onlinebiker Wrote: I didn' t dodge the question.

I don' t affiliate with ANY party - because all a party is, is a label a politician sticks after their name to trick the public into voting for them.

It' s TOTALLY about politicians - as the public's perception that there is a difference between parties serves the politician not the public.

Sadly, I concur that the differences between the two parties are more superficial than folks like to admit. But I don't blame the politicians. I blame the people responsible for electing the politicians: the general population.

Now, I'm not saying the general population shouldn't be in charge of putting government officials in power. There is no better group than they.

I just wish they were more qualified (ie better educated) for the job. (It is a rather important job, after all.)

See the thread about overeducation to see why the free market will not allow a more qualified general population. That's a catch 22 if I ever saw one. Have fun complaining about "those shitty politicians" because I can only see one way to fix that problem. And it ain't gonna be fixed by the looks of things.

Once again, I am tired of seeing this argument that the two parties are the same. They are not.

Politicians regardless of party, only have the power voters give them. 

There is a HUGE difference between voters regarding party.

Long term GOP voters have thought long term, and vote more in local and state and off year elections. Democratic voters have not. 

Dem voter apathy took hold when Reagan started deregulation and successfully busted the air traffic control unions. Since then dems AS VOTERS became more apathetic to local and state elections, which in turn allowed the GOP to gerrymander more and more in that 40 years. That in turn forced our politicians to compete with their narrative. 

DEMS as voters are on the right side of history. AS VOTERS. We want livable wages for workers, we want affordable health care and affordable education. We want investment like FDR gave us in the New Deal. We want minorities to be treated as equally as the majority. 

The reason we don't have that isn't because our politicians don't want to give that to us, they do. The reason they cant, is because we don't show up enough to vote every year, and we dont think long term. 

The GOP has taken advantage of our 40 year dem voter apathy and stacked the deck with the voting districts and the Supreme Court.

IF dems as voters would stop their bullshit infighting, and show up in all local and state elections every year, and we stop vilifying middle America which also has liberals, and we start thinking every day, and every year long term, we can win. 

We won't win if all we do is look at politicians as super heros with capes.

(April 29, 2019 at 11:06 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 29, 2019 at 10:54 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: Sadly, I concur that the differences between the two parties are more superficial than folks like to admit. But I don't blame the politicians. I blame the people responsible for electing the politicians: the general population.

Now, I'm not saying the general population shouldn't be in charge of putting government officials in power. There is no better group than they.

I just wish they were more qualified (ie better educated) for the job. (It is a rather important job, after all.)

See the thread about overeducation to see why the free market will not allow a more qualified general population. That's a catch 22 if I ever saw one. Have fun complaining about "those shitty politicians" because I can only see one way to fix that problem. And it ain't gonna be fixed by the looks of things.

Once again, I am tired of seeing this argument that the two parties are the same. They are not.

Politicians regardless of party, only have the power voters give them. 

There is a HUGE difference between voters regarding party.

Long term GOP voters have thought long term, and vote more in local and state and off year elections. Democratic voters have not. 

Dem voter apathy took hold when Reagan started deregulation and successfully busted the air traffic control unions. Since then dems AS VOTERS became more apathetic to local and state elections, which in turn allowed the GOP to gerrymander more and more in that 40 years. That in turn forced our politicians to compete with their narrative. 

DEMS as voters are on the right side of history. AS VOTERS. We want livable wages for workers, we want affordable health care and affordable education. We want investment like FDR gave us in the New Deal. We want minorities to be treated as equally as the majority. 

The reason we don't have that isn't because our politicians don't want to give that to us, they do. The reason they cant, is because we don't show up enough to vote every year, and we dont think long term. 

The GOP has taken advantage of our 40 year dem voter apathy and stacked the deck with the voting districts and the Supreme Court.

IF dems as voters would stop their bullshit infighting, and show up in all local and state elections every year, and we stop vilifying middle America which also has liberals, and we start thinking every day, and every year long term, we can win. 

We won't win if all we do is look at politicians as super heros with capes.

Sticking a ( D ) after your name doesn' t make you a good person.

Your party is every bit corrupt as those " other guys" you spend all day trying to villify.

Which doesn't raise the ®s up, of course.

(April 28, 2019 at 9:58 pm)emilsein Wrote: Do you think the democrats really give a damn about minorities anymore than the republicans do? I think the system is rigged so that low income types will vote for them for services and such, I have recently opened my eyes and no longer consider myself as liberal as I once way.

I think there are many, many more Democrats concerned with their well-being than there are Republicans. I think there's a reason the most vile racists find comfort in the Republican party, and that white supremacists overwhelmingly are Trump supporters. Obviously I am not saying that Trump supporters or Republicans are automatically racist (that would be very stupid of me), but there must be a reason they find good company in the party. That's all I'll say about that.

That being said, I do think there's a strange brand of racism in which liberals think themselves superior to minorities on a subconscious level and believe they must help them rise up, because they are not good enough to do it on their own. See: White liberals dumb themselves down when they speak to minorities, new study contends.


As for the OP - lol. Imagine living in 2019 and debating which party did what over half a century ago. It doesn't matter who's right. It's asinine. Things have changed so radically you don't even know where to begin to explain all the differences. It's beyond ridiculous.

(April 29, 2019 at 11:45 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Which doesn't raise the ®s up, of course.

What part of " every bit as corrupt" are you having problems with?

I have no illusions that either party is worth a damn.

Relentlessly obstreperous, as usual.

(April 29, 2019 at 12:34 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Relentlessly obstreperous, as usual.

Were you expecting anything else ? But the glass being half empty with him .