(May 6, 2019 at 2:00 pm)tackattack Wrote: My views are that I am a Christian and based in my understanding of popular Christian dogma from personal experience and study that Christians are not taught to judge other people. That would be reserved for God, and we are to love even our enemies.

This point has always confused me. How can Christians judge themselves as Christians, or that others are not, if God is the only accurate judge?

And if you say real Christians are not taught to consider themselves Christians, you just eliminated 99% of them from their memberships, including yourself.

It's like saying, "We shouldn't judge others, but WE are all saved and going to Heaven!"

Christian duplicity is a thing.  Its an awfully judgy religion filled with awfully judgy people.......who are told not to be judgy.

We could assert that christianity is chock full of people who fail to live up to the example of christ - but that revelation isn't going to blow any christian socks off. Still, if all falter, and none are worthy...what sense does it make to exclude a significant amount of christians on account of failing like everyone else by the same (and your own) standards? That said, hem an haw all you like, Tack, about popular christian dogma, and hell..I'm even willing to believe that you're not one of the judgy ones - but you and I both know, and understand, and see how popular christianity is practiced. They (and you) are taught to judge people. They (and you) are taught that their standard is the divine standard. That magic book also tells you to not get judgy is..very much because of this...hilarious and dissonant.

Just trying to contextualize it made you throw all those christians out the christian boat, compelled you to make personal space between them and yourself.

Too committed to the True Christian claim, it seems.

(May 12, 2019 at 8:21 pm)tackattack Wrote:

(May 10, 2019 at 10:38 am)Alan V Wrote: This point has always confused me.  How can Christians judge themselves as Christians, or that others are not, if God is the only accurate judge?

And if you say real Christians are not taught to consider themselves Christians, you just eliminated 99% of them from their memberships, including yourself.

It's like saying, "We shouldn't judge others, but WE are all saved and going to Heaven!"

It's not that difficult. We're not to judge others, but we are to judge ourselves. That is the purpose of the law and the Holy Spirit, to pint out ways we are not Christlike to repent from them. I don't and didn't judge this ex-pastor. I was merely pointing out that by his words he judged himself a faker, and by definition not a Christian. Then the band wagon got riled up at a perceived Christian being judgy to a down and out guy, when I was just calling a spade a spade. I am assured in my salvation. I can only speak for me. I can hope for others that I love and care for, even some of you, but I don't know. Christians are taught to have a genuine faith and assurance of their salvation. You study and learn how to judge yourself, it's called sanctification.  It is exactly like saying WE shouldn't judge others, and I am saved. Christians didn't originally call themselves Christians, it was a term used by non-Christians to label followers of Christ. This whole last two pages really isn't about anything other than agreeing to a definition of "true Christian". I'm sorry if you remain confused, I hope I cleared some of that up for you.

"It's not that difficult," as you say, only if you interpret the original as you do.

The original Matthew 7 says this: "[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged. [2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

I take this to mean, "don't judge others, your community, or yourself." The reason for this was implied in the second verse: we are not capable of doing so, and if we do so we set ourselves up for future failures. People can be good or bad over time, and most certainly can change. Every judgment is jumping to a conclusion, including about our own righteousness. That is as much a trap for us as thinking we or others are awful. So not judging is a way of being on guard. Many people who believe they are already saved are not on guard.

What may confuse this issue is that the saying which follows it in the Bible is about finding fault with another, the speck in another's eye. But to me this explores only one aspect of the first idea.

One more time, tackattack: I'm fine with calling people who are faking it until they make it fake Christians. I think that's a course of action that will discourage new converts and I think that, in the grand scheme of things, Christianity leans towards toxicity, so we're all better off if we mock the ones who struggle. You get to restrict Christianity to True Christians Only ™ and I think that would be great. I'm not arguing with you about how beliefs are formed, I agree. But did you know that sincerely trying to convince yourself that something is true often leads to belief that it's true? It would be grand to nip that sort of thinking in the bud, and mockery is an effective tool for that. Win!

Magic book says alot of things, Tack.

(May 13, 2019 at 9:39 am)tackattack Wrote: Hope that is a little clearer.

Yeah, I get it. I'm not allowed to have a different interpretation of scripture because I'm an atheist, even though I was raised a Christian.