(June 24, 2019 at 8:10 pm)Belaqua Wrote:

(June 24, 2019 at 7:35 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: That's a lovely sentiment, but it is neither scriptural nor religious.

Boru

It was written by a German aesthetic philosopher. Since then it has been picked up by a lot of religious people, who consider it to be completely in line with the Gospels. I got it from an Episcopalian. 

I agree with you that even non-religious people can find it lovely -- as is true of the quote in the OP as well.

Correct! Rumi was a poet. It was not an Islamic quote although Sufis consider Rumi a founder.

(June 24, 2019 at 8:35 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Rumi was apoet. It was not an Islamic quote although Sufis consider Rumi a founder.

This is good to keep in mind, I think.

Until very recently, we can't really divide poets from religious people. Even poems that don't seem explicitly religious are likely to be rooted in the writer's thoughts about subjects that were thought about within a religious structure -- love, morality, the individual's relation to the natural world, and everything else, just about. 

Dante's stilo nuovo poems are about pretty girls. They are also inseparable from his religious views. 

I think it's important for us not to pretend that everything prior to, say, The Origin of Species, is rendered irrelevant because it is religious.

(June 24, 2019 at 9:02 pm)Belaqua Wrote:

(June 24, 2019 at 8:35 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Rumi was apoet. It was not an Islamic quote although Sufis consider Rumi a founder.

This is good to keep in mind, I think.

Until very recently, we can't really divide poets from religious people. Even poems that don't seem explicitly religious are likely to be rooted in the writer's thoughts about subjects that were thought about within a religious structure -- love, morality, the individual's relation to the natural world, and everything else, just about. 

Dante's stilo nuovo poems are about pretty girls. They are also inseparable from his religious views. 

I think it's important for us not to pretend that everything prior to, say, The Origin of Species, is rendered irrelevant because it is religious.

I would say that some Sufi's defer to poets more than Koranic sources.

"And they shall stand in despair before the white cliffs of the world, and shall chant from their empty tomes in vain, for their words are nothing! And Erú shall prevail against His enemies and they shall be cast into the Void, for their enchantments are naught and their gods are helpless before Him." (The Silmarillion, 17:82)

(June 24, 2019 at 9:05 pm)chimp3 Wrote: I would say that some Sufi's defer to poets more than Koranic sources.

This is also important, I think, in understanding religious people. 

Some Muslims and some Christians (and maybe others) stick entirely to their respective scriptures. But traditionally, people in a particular religion may practice their faith based on all kinds of other sources. Either Church Fathers, or religious poetry, or (sad to say) TV preachers. 

The whole sola scriptura thing is modern. Demanding that believers read and interpret original sources for themselves hasn't always been the case. In fact it may get bad results, since stupid people tend to interpret stupidly. 

So I think that it makes perfect sense for Christians or Muslims or Buddhists or whatever to get their inspiration from the arts of all kinds. That's what it's for, I'm pretty sure. 

And this has been authorized by some pretty serious religious people. Kobo Daishi, for example, said that esoteric sutras are so hard that paintings are actually better for understanding certain concepts.

No need to quote the motherfucking verse.

Purgatorio XV: 67-75

That infinite and ineffable Good which is up
there, runs to love just as a ray comes to a shining
body.

It gives itself according to the measure of the
love it finds, so that however great is the charity
that reaches out, by so much the eternal Worth
grows upon it.

And the more people bend toward each other up
there, the more there is to love well and the more
love there is, like a mirror, each reflects it to
the other.

-----------------

Quello infinito e ineffabil bene
che là sù è, così corre ad amore
com’a lucido corpo raggio vene.

Tanto si dà quanto trova d’ardore;
sì che, quantunque carità si stende,
cresce sovr’essa l’etterno valore.

E quanta gente più là sù s’intende,
più v’è da bene amare, e più vi s’ama,
e come specchio l’uno a l’altro rende.

---

Jesus was sitting in Moses’ chair.
They brought the trembling woman there.
Moses commands she be ston’d to death.
What was the sound of Jesus’ breath?
He laid His hand on Moses’ law;
The ancient Heavens, in silent awe,
Writ with curses from pole to pole,
All away began to roll.
The Earth trembling and naked lay
In secret bed of mortal clay;
On Sinai felt the Hand Divine
Pulling back the bloody shrine;
And she heard the breath of God,
As she heard by Eden’s flood:
‘Good and Evil are no more!
Sinai’s trumpets cease to roar!
Cease, finger of God, to write!
The Heavens are not clean in Thy sight.
Thou art good, and Thou alone;
Nor may the sinner cast one stone.
To be good only, is to be
A God or else a Pharisee.

from The Everlasting Gospel, William Blake

In the bible 1 Thessalonians 5:16 "Rejoice always," Also the shortest.

9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1 Corinthians 13:11-12

Even a high wind does not last all day.
The Laozi

If he wants to be a child, be a child with him. [On how to counsel a ruler]
The Zhuangzi

Speaking of Rumi, there is a Rumi quote about how I, as a human being, am an astrolabe of God, which I like very much, but have skant chance of locating without significant research.