(July 2, 2019 at 12:08 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Its weird like that magi... It is twisted the love of guns. Sure if the woman was shooting a gun, I would find perfectly reasonable to use a gun to bring her down, but she was unarmed and pregnant. I don't think of pregnant women as masters of krav maga, so it is easy to dodge any blow, while making a call to the cops.

Excessive use of force is the legal lango here. Even cops have to abide by that.

I doubt the fight was conducted on a rational, reasonable level.

She's being punished for starting a fight it looks like.

It's like if a Father hit someone with a bat while holding his new born baby and during the scuffle to stop him the baby falls over and dies.

I don't know what happened in the situation, it's saying she followed another woman, stopped her getting away in a vehicle somehow. The other woman pulled a gun out.  It looks like in the linked articles that people are taking into consideration that it's a situation of a woman losing her baby and she won't be punished for starting this fight where she ended up being shot.  If she did start the fight even. It makes me think pleasant grove isn't as nice as it sounds as a place to live.

(July 2, 2019 at 5:09 pm)paulpablo Wrote: It's like if a Father hit someone with a bat while holding his new born baby and during the scuffle to stop him the baby falls over and dies.

It's nothing like that at all. 

It's more like if a father was due to give his son a kidney transplant the next day and his son would die without it, and then the father gets into a fight with someone, and gets shot in the kidney, and the son dies due to the inability of the father to give his kidney, the father gets charged with manslaughter.

(July 2, 2019 at 5:17 pm)Cecelia Wrote:

(July 2, 2019 at 5:09 pm)paulpablo Wrote: It's like if a Father hit someone with a bat while holding his new born baby and during the scuffle to stop him the baby falls over and dies.

It's nothing like that at all. 

It's more like if a father was due to give his son a kidney transplant the next day and his son would die without it, and then the father gets into a fight with someone, and gets shot in the kidney, and the son dies due to the inability of the father to give his kidney, the father gets charged with manslaughter.

Why do you see it as being more like that?

She was carrying her baby, that's the same as the man in my example.  Not giving organs to the baby like in your example.

(July 2, 2019 at 5:21 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Why do you see it as being more like that?

She was carrying her baby, that's the same as the man in my example.  Not giving organs to the baby like in your example.

She wasn't carrying her baby in her arms.  So no, it's not the same as a man in your example.  Apparently "Holding a baby" is equal to "Pregnant" for you.  Being pregnant is a whole lot different, and if you think otherwise you may want to take a high school reproductive course.

Sheesh.

(July 2, 2019 at 5:26 pm)Cecelia Wrote:

(July 2, 2019 at 5:21 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Why do you see it as being more like that?

She was carrying her baby, that's the same as the man in my example.  Not giving organs to the baby like in your example.

She wasn't carrying her baby in her arms.  So no, it's not the same as a man in your example.  Apparently "Holding a baby" is equal to "Pregnant" for you.  Being pregnant is a whole lot different, and if you think otherwise you may want to take a high school reproductive course.

I know, I was saying between the two examples mine is closer. They're both holding a physical baby.
I'm sure youre not saying donating organs to someone outside your body is being pregnant?
The same way I'm obviously not saying my example is someone being pregnant.

Its not a comment on the biology of pregnancy, it's the principle of holding a baby you're looking after while getting into an aggressive physical confrontation.

(July 3, 2019 at 1:06 am)paulpablo Wrote:

(July 2, 2019 at 5:26 pm)Cecelia Wrote: She wasn't carrying her baby in her arms.  So no, it's not the same as a man in your example.  Apparently "Holding a baby" is equal to "Pregnant" for you.  Being pregnant is a whole lot different, and if you think otherwise you may want to take a high school reproductive course.

I know, I was saying between the two examples mine is closer. They're both holding a physical baby.
I'm sure youre not saying donating organs to someone outside your body is being pregnant?
The same way I'm obviously not saying my example is someone being pregnant.

Its not a comment on the biology of pregnancy, it's the principle of holding a baby you're looking after while getting into an aggressive physical confrontation.

No, first fetus is not a baby, and even if you consider it a baby due to bigoted laws, falling from ones arms, and getting shot by someone else are totally different things.

(July 3, 2019 at 2:16 am)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(July 3, 2019 at 1:06 am)paulpablo Wrote: I know, I was saying between the two examples mine is closer. They're both holding a physical baby.
I'm sure youre not saying donating organs to someone outside your body is being pregnant?
The same way I'm obviously not saying my example is someone being pregnant.

Its not a comment on the biology of pregnancy, it's the principle of holding a baby you're looking after while getting into an aggressive physical confrontation.

No, first fetus is not a baby, and even if you consider it a baby due to bigoted laws, falling from ones arms, and getting shot by someone else are totally different things.

I'm not in favour of laws against abortion but I'd consider a fetus to be a synonym for unborn baby.

I need to clarify what I thought was fairly simple. I'm not saying a man holding a baby is pregnant with a baby.

I'm not saying I think being dropped out of someone's arms is being shot by someone.

I was drawing a similarity where the principle is the same.
In both instances someone is holding a baby they plan to care for, I'm sure no one would suggest the woman did this as a method of abortion. So she's planning to care for the baby but got into a violent altercation and the claim is she was the aggressor.

So the principle is that they're holding a baby they're caring for while acting violently.

Really a comparison situation isn't necessary. It's simple enough to say, don't chase people and engage in a fight with them while you're pregnant. The baby you're caring for might get hurt.

For interested parties, who aren't distracted from seeing the the big picture by the mere presence of a black face or "imperfect" victim.
change.org petition

Folks can also donate to Ms. Jones' legal defense via the Yellowhammer Fund, a reproductive rights organization that helps provide abortion access. 
Yellohammer Fund