(November 1, 2019 at 8:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(November 1, 2019 at 8:14 am)Brian37 Wrote: It is impossible for anyone of any religion to expect 7 billion humans will magically and suddenly settle  on Jesus, Allah, Yoda, Buddha, Vishnu , Thor, Captain Kirk, Luke Skywalker.

Dafuq's that got to do with anything?

Ike was a hypocrite because he never 'saw' war - he saw the aftermath, certainly, but he had zero actual combat experience.  And I don't believe for a moment that he 'hated' war. 

Boru

Sorry but between Ike and Dick Cheney, I'll take Ike over a fucking dick every day of the week.

(November 1, 2019 at 8:23 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 1, 2019 at 8:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Dafuq's that got to do with anything?

Ike was a hypocrite because he never 'saw' war - he saw the aftermath, certainly, but he had zero actual combat experience.  And I don't believe for a moment that he 'hated' war. 

Boru

Sorry but between Ike and Dick Cheney, I'll take Ike over a fucking dick every day of the week.

Why bring up Dick Cheney?  That's a stupid comparison to make.

You'll take Ike?  You can have him.  He was a political general - all front, stupid, dependent on his staff.

Boru

Ike was a desk jockey.

A never been there, never done that, doesn't have the t-shirt kinda guy.


Much like you Brian...

(November 1, 2019 at 8:29 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(November 1, 2019 at 8:23 am)Brian37 Wrote: Sorry but between Ike and Dick Cheney, I'll take Ike over a fucking dick every day of the week.

Why bring up Dick Cheney?  That's a stupid comparison to make.

You'll take Ike?  You can have him.  He was a political general - all front, stupid, dependent on his staff.

Boru

If you watch all of that video, he makes plenty of religious references that make me cringe. But the sense of him personally outside of his own beliefs, is that war is hell, and something to be avoided at all costs. I agree with that. 

I'd rather have ANYONE serve who does so as a sense of duty, but not revenge. Dirty Harry and Rambo may make for good Hollywood movies, but suck as far as empathy and compassion.

(November 1, 2019 at 8:54 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 1, 2019 at 8:29 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Why bring up Dick Cheney?  That's a stupid comparison to make.

You'll take Ike?  You can have him.  He was a political general - all front, stupid, dependent on his staff.

Boru

If you watch all of that video, he makes plenty of religious references that make me cringe. But the sense of him personally outside of his own beliefs, is that war is hell, and something to be avoided at all costs. I agree with that. 

I'd rather have ANYONE serve who does so as a sense of duty, but not revenge. Dirty Harry and Rambo may make for good Hollywood movies, but suck as far as empathy and compassion.

Innit funny how a guy who (you think) claimed that war is 'something to be avoided at all costs' started your country's involvement in the Viet Nam debacle?

And why would a man who claimed to hate war spend almost his entire adult life as a soldier? 

And Harry Callahan was a cop, not a soldier.  Try to stay on topic.

Boru

(November 1, 2019 at 9:01 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(November 1, 2019 at 8:54 am)Brian37 Wrote: If you watch all of that video, he makes plenty of religious references that make me cringe. But the sense of him personally outside of his own beliefs, is that war is hell, and something to be avoided at all costs. I agree with that. 

I'd rather have ANYONE serve who does so as a sense of duty, but not revenge. Dirty Harry and Rambo may make for good Hollywood movies, but suck as far as empathy and compassion.

Innit funny how a guy who (you think) claimed that war is 'something to be avoided at all costs' started your country's involvement in the Viet Nam debacle?

And why would a man who claimed to hate war spend almost his entire adult life as a soldier? 

And Harry Callahan was a cop, not a soldier.  Try to stay on topic.

Boru

If you want to pin me down to a "perfect" president, in our history, fuck off.

I will never claim Ike was perfect. I will argue that many in American history took war seriously and did not look at it as a default position. 

Many doctors can tell you they hate operating on gunshot victims, but they don't get into the field just to say, "Shoot people so I can make a living."

(November 1, 2019 at 9:13 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 1, 2019 at 9:01 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Innit funny how a guy who (you think) claimed that war is 'something to be avoided at all costs' started your country's involvement in the Viet Nam debacle?

And why would a man who claimed to hate war spend almost his entire adult life as a soldier? 

And Harry Callahan was a cop, not a soldier.  Try to stay on topic.

Boru

If you want to pin me down to a "perfect" president, in our history, fuck off.

I will never claim Ike was perfect. I will argue that many in American history took war seriously and did not look at it as a default position. 

Many doctors can tell you they hate operating on gunshot victims, but they don't get into the field just to say, "Shoot people so I can make a living."

So, my 'try to stay on topic' advice didn't take.  As expected.

Boru

(November 1, 2019 at 9:01 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And why would a man who claimed to hate war spend almost his entire adult life as a soldier? 

Can't speak for Eisenhower, and it's worth noting that his rehabilitation hinges on a later claim he made - as is so often the case with politicians......but...

I'd have stayed in the service, hating war...because I felt deeply committed to and fulfilled by peacekeeping and humanitarian missions.  I think people forget that the US military is the largest and most competent relief organization the world has ever seen. Even more fundamentally, I liked to imagine that what we really wanted in the service were people who truly wished to avoid conflict. If the choice of leadership and personnel is between a bunch of bloodthirsty Cleti and a natural pacifist...well.

It's at least possible that Eisenhower felt something similar, that he contextualized his service in light of what good he'd accomplished or what conflict he'd avoided or minimized...rather than his body count. Soldiers are as complicated and fuzzy as anyone else. There's definitely truth in the notion that no one can detest war like a person who's been disgusted by it, and their participation in it, first hand.

(November 1, 2019 at 9:26 am)Gae Bolga Wrote:

(November 1, 2019 at 9:01 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And why would a man who claimed to hate war spend almost his entire adult life as a soldier? 

Can't speak for Eisenhower, and it's worth noting that his rehabilitation hinges on a later claim he made - as is so often the case with politicians......but...

I'd have stayed in the service, hating war...because I felt deeply committed to and fulfilled by peacekeeping and humanitarian missions.  I think people forget that the US military is the largest and most competent relief organization the world has ever seen.  Even more fundamentally, I liked to imagine that what we really wanted in the service were people who truly wished to avoid conflict.  If the choice of leadership and personnel is between a bunch of bloodthirsty Cleti and a natural pacifist...well.

It's at least possible that Eisenhower felt something similar, that he contextualized his service in light of what good he'd accomplished or what conflict he'd avoided or minimized...rather than his body count.  Soldiers are as complicated and fuzzy as anyone else.  There's definitely truth in the notion that no one can detest war like a person who's been disgusted by it, and their participation in it,  first hand.

I once had my ass kicked by a former high school classmate. After graduation I ran into her and at the time she was dating a Viet Nam Vet. I made the mistake at the time of telling him that I supported him, but not the politics for being there. I look back at it now, and she was at a minimum 12 years younger than the guy she was dating. Forget the age difference.

So after that meeting, a couple days later, I get a call from her, she tells me to come over to her house, which I do. I follow her to the basement and suddenly she ambushes me with martial arts. I am not kidding. It wasn't a matter for me of "don't hit a female". I was literally "What the fuck did I do"? A couple punches to my chest and face I ran out of there. 

Apparently I pissed off her boyfriend and he took offense to my objection to our involvement in Nam, which was political, not based on his service.


It is possible to value service and hate war.

Life and people are weird.