(November 12, 2019 at 3:17 pm)TimOneill Wrote: Jesus Christ. What "Aron Ra" said was wrong. He didn't "lean on" any "credible scholar" - he simply misinterpreted Augustine's comments on the Antipodes, because he's clueless. And the people you mention "make mistakes" because they don't know what they're talking about, but when they honk their ignorance to thousands of uncritical readers and viewers - we have a problem. 

It seems to me that you are overreacting. Thing is that Augustine was crazy and his books are insane ramblings, so considering Earth to be flat is something that you would expect from this kind of person. Like if some atheist said that Ray Comfort thinks world is flat, and then some other person "debunks" it by pointing to Comfort's writings, it wouldn't matter much because Ray Comfort would still be a very crazy and wrong person. So to even go further and claim how atheists are trying to delude Christians is more ridiculous than some sort of righting of the wrongs.
So from my perspective it's *meh*.

(November 12, 2019 at 7:34 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(November 12, 2019 at 3:17 pm)TimOneill Wrote: Jesus Christ. What "Aron Ra" said was wrong. He didn't "lean on" any "credible scholar" - he simply misinterpreted Augustine's comments on the Antipodes, because he's clueless. And the people you mention "make mistakes" because they don't know what they're talking about, but when they honk their ignorance to thousands of uncritical readers and viewers - we have a problem. 

It seems to me that you are overreacting. Thing is that Augustine was crazy and his books are insane ramblings, so considering Earth to be flat is something that you would expect from this kind of person. Like if some atheist said that Ray Comfort thinks world is flat, and then some other person "debunks" it by pointing to Comfort's writings, it wouldn't matter much because Ray Comfort would still be a very crazy and wrong person. So to even go further and claim how atheists are trying to delude Christians is more ridiculous than some sort of righting of the wrongs.
So from my perspective it's *meh*.

This is a very clear statement of what other people say less directly.

For you, it isn't about telling the truth. If Amon Ra says things that are just flat wrong, it is of no concern to you.

It is about team sports. Atheists Good. Christians Crazy. Even when the atheists are spreading falsehoods. It's as simple as that.

(November 12, 2019 at 7:34 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(November 12, 2019 at 3:17 pm)TimOneill Wrote: Jesus Christ. What "Aron Ra" said was wrong. He didn't "lean on" any "credible scholar" - he simply misinterpreted Augustine's comments on the Antipodes, because he's clueless. And the people you mention "make mistakes" because they don't know what they're talking about, but when they honk their ignorance to thousands of uncritical readers and viewers - we have a problem. 

It seems to me that you are overreacting. Thing is that Augustine was crazy and his books are insane ramblings, so considering Earth to be flat is something that you would expect from this kind of person. Like if some atheist said that Ray Comfort thinks world is flat, and then some other person "debunks" it by pointing to Comfort's writings, it wouldn't matter much because Ray Comfort would still be a very crazy and wrong person. So to even go further and claim how atheists are trying to delude Christians is more ridiculous than some sort of righting of the wrongs.
So from my perspective it's *meh*.

Whatever you and I might think about his religious beliefs, there is no evidence he was "crazy", his writings are coherent and consistent and he was clearly highly intelligent. 

And that's all beside the point - what that "Aron Ra" person said about them was wrong. End of story. I think I've wasted enough of my time on you, but thanks for giving me yet another example of a "rationalist" who can't sustain a coherent argument because of irrational emotionalism. People like you are an embarrassment to the rest of us.

Great now we're comparing Augustine to Ray Comfort. Yeah lots of similarities there. /sarcasm

It's workable, really. The banaman got it wrong for exactly the same reason so many christian thinkers got it wrong.

If we begin with our desired conclusion and "reason" our way backwards, from there, theres no end to the hilarity that can ensue.

(November 10, 2019 at 5:01 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(November 10, 2019 at 4:31 am)EgoDeath Wrote: I find it interesting that you constantly feel the need to defend Christianity. For an atheist, youre an odd guy. Not necessarily a bad thing, but true nonetheless.

Its as if youre unable to partake in a conversation about the flaws of religion.

The flaws of religion are well documented on this forum. Some people seem to get positive joy from repeating the same flaws over and over. In fact I think some people would be satisfied if the whole web site consisted of a big red button that said "Religion Bad" on it, and you could come here and click on the button every day. Click really hard.

The shocking thing for me is that the so-called reasonable people are so committed to falsehoods as well. I think we all know that the for-profit media corporations are only interested in money and not quality. Yet I'm continually shocked by just how bad the "successful" products really are. 

Sagan's Cosmos and Tyson's both repeated falsehoods about history. Stephen Greenblatt's book on Lucretius, The Swerve, was panned by real historians, yet given high-level awards by people whose ideology it flattered. Dawkins knows that his past books contain numerous errors, yet once again, in his newest one, he neglected to have it fact-checked by experts. The guy lives in Oxford, where there are any number of grad students who would do the job well and cheaply, within bicycling distance of his home. Yet he didn't bother. Hitchens' book is just embarrassingly full of errors -- not ideological things I disagree with, but facts about history that educated people know. 

If we lambaste religious people while repeating our own favorite falsehoods, we are just hypocrites.

Ok bel so then why do you spend time here? To remind us of how were just as mistaken as the christians we criticize? Youve appointed yourself to this position... Or...? 

Its insane to me that you dont realize how arrogant you are, forever playing the devils advocate to a group of people who dont believe in the devil, constantly reminding us of how "committed to falsehoods" we all are, as if even if that were true, that somehow disqualifies us from criticizing the falsehoods that the religious are committed to.

The thing is, you defend quite a small subset of christianity. Most christians are not who you make them out to be, leisurely perusing the works of Aquinas and enjoying the fine poetry of The Divine Comedy... Thats simply not who most christians are. Furthermore, I dont think were required to criticize the type of christianity you espouse, mostly because those types of christians often believe in god about as much as you or I do.

Plenty of educated Jews are atheists who simply choose to follow the traditions for whatever personal reasons they have. I suppose the same is probably true for many educated Christians.

And even if they do believe in god, so what? They still concede that the majority of the bible is symbolic tropes amd metaphors, right? So what do any of us care? If you want to believe in some malleable , symbolic, cherry picked version of christianity, thats totally cool with me. So long as you dont push harmful ideas on others and tell your kids theyre going to hell if they dont brush their teeth at night. I dont really care what you believe.

Tell me what it REALLY is about atheists that you have a chip on your shoulder about. Im honestly concerned. You clearly think pretty lowly of the community here, as were apparently all just committed to falsehoods and follow lying, opportunistic leaders like Tyson and Dawkins. Whats your real point bel? Honestly? What is it you REALLY want to say?

(November 12, 2019 at 7:42 pm)Belacqua Wrote:

(November 12, 2019 at 7:34 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: It seems to me that you are overreacting. Thing is that Augustine was crazy and his books are insane ramblings, so considering Earth to be flat is something that you would expect from this kind of person. Like if some atheist said that Ray Comfort thinks world is flat, and then some other person "debunks" it by pointing to Comfort's writings, it wouldn't matter much because Ray Comfort would still be a very crazy and wrong person. So to even go further and claim how atheists are trying to delude Christians is more ridiculous than some sort of righting of the wrongs.
So from my perspective it's *meh*.

This is a very clear statement of what other people say less directly.

For you, it isn't about telling the truth. If Amon Ra says things that are just flat wrong, it is of no concern to you.

It is about team sports. Atheists Good. Christians Crazy. Even when the atheists are spreading falsehoods. It's as simple as that.

The first century Christian sects, clearly, believed in a flat Earth.

Which isn't surprising, since proto-christianity was not an intellectual movement, wouldn't make the attempt to become one for centuries, and not until they appropriated classical thought for themselves.

A smart and well educated person could have known, since the third century bc, not only that the earth was round but even it's rough measurements. Christians weren't smart, well educated people, they were the common rabble - and to this day little has changed on that count. A smart and well educated christian would understand why special creation is a non starter, for example. In fact many of the people instrumental to modern synth were smart, well educated christians. Christianity remains the charismatic movement it has always been, in spite of whatever contributions comparatively greater christian intellects have made.

Bel's a good example of that, as was Saint Tommy. He -was- crazy. Smart too, probably. Hobbled by his place in time and an abusive religion. He thought that god was talking to him and sending him visions..which is pretty damned rare for even the most devout christians today. Just as it's pretty fucking crazy to imagine the shit Bel posted...and yet....

Also explains why the intelligentsia of Jesus' day never even mention him -- they knew a religious crank when they saw one.

That -is- what the intelligentsia said when they first heard of the demi-god and his religion. Or, at least, that's what the earliest known mention of the faith ends with, and what educated pagan romans continued to argue for centuries. Christians spent the next few arguing against that, lol. Had a single emperor not been assassinated by his own men that debate would have ended, but history took a turn. Then they had to have that argument again, every time they expanded into new territory.