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RE: What do invented saints tell us about Christianity?
November 14, 2019 at 10:03 am
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2019 at 10:04 am by The Grand Nudger.)
A flat earth was a common cosmological belief among the masses in areas influenced by greek, chaldean, and egyptian culture...which pretty much surrounds the entirety of proto-christendom and why it's reflected in their magic books, and in their early disputes with each other..even if people in the know, at the time, knew better.
Magic books and the stories they contained weren't constructed or written for people who knew better.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What do invented saints tell us about Christianity?
November 14, 2019 at 10:19 am
(November 14, 2019 at 10:03 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: A flat earth was a common cosmological belief among the masses in areas influenced by greek, chaldean, and egyptian culture...which pretty much surrounds the entirety of proto-christendom and why it's reflected in their magic books, and in their early disputes with each other..even if people in the know, at the time, knew better.
Magic books and the stories they contained weren't constructed or written for people who knew better.
In the early days of Christianity, there were few conversions among the educated, say, members of the Roman Senate. Even Josephus, in his tome on the Roman Jewish wars, while discussing Pontinus Pilate at length, never even mentions Jesus.
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RE: What do invented saints tell us about Christianity?
November 14, 2019 at 5:28 pm
(November 14, 2019 at 9:48 am)Jehanne Wrote: (November 14, 2019 at 9:02 am)Grandizer Wrote: Well, it's Revelation. It's a book of imagery and symbolism more than anything else.
I believe that the author was being literal in his sentiments. If you look at the 2nd and 3rd century Christian thinkers, they believed in a flat Earth also.
These days most scholars agree that the Revelation of John is entirely symbolic, mostly collaged together from symbols in the Old Testament.
It's not persuasive to me to say that it must be literal because it's in Revelation.
As for the 2nd and 3rd century Christians, again, what is your source for that?
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RE: What do invented saints tell us about Christianity?
November 14, 2019 at 5:33 pm
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2019 at 5:38 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It was very literal for the people who necessitated it's inclusion, and for modern day christians...and christians at every year in between, which has always been the last year before the end of days. Doesn't really matter what the author intended, huh? Think about that, every generation from that first proto christian generation to this one..convinced that theirs would be the last to walk the earth, and that jesus would be back....any day now. By a poem, as you imagine it.
Whats super amusing is that is was included, like other stories in the "gospels" for it's popularity with the masses, not because the people in charge of that decision believed it or thought that it fit with their theology...which they didn't and it didn't, and they knew that from the beginning.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What do invented saints tell us about Christianity?
November 14, 2019 at 5:33 pm
(November 14, 2019 at 10:19 am)Jehanne Wrote: In the early days of Christianity, there were few conversions among the educated, say, members of the Roman Senate. Even Josephus, in his tome on the Roman Jewish wars, while discussing Pontinus Pilate at length, never even mentions Jesus.
Granted, it's harder to know the beliefs of the illiterates, because they didn't write things down.
On the other hand, since the educated people all knew that earth is a sphere, we don't know how far this was passed on to less-educated people.
Do you have any historical source making this specific claim -- that the rank and file believed in a flat earth? I don't want to assume it's true without any evidence.
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RE: What do invented saints tell us about Christianity?
November 14, 2019 at 5:43 pm
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2019 at 5:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
No it's not, the people who could write wrote screeds against their beliefs...and the beliefs of other literates, too..like a flat earth. It's not actually hard for you to get those sources yourself.
You have google.
Lets not pretend it has anything to do with what assumptions you don't want to make..instead of those assumptions you must make, on account of your insufferable fucking schtick on these boards.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What do invented saints tell us about Christianity?
November 14, 2019 at 5:45 pm
(November 14, 2019 at 5:43 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: No it's not, the people who could write wrote screeds against their beliefs...and the beliefs of other literates, too..like a flat earth. It's not actually hard for you to get those sources yourself.
You have google.
Watch out.
He’ll go running after “Tim O’Neill” again...
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: What do invented saints tell us about Christianity?
November 14, 2019 at 5:46 pm
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2019 at 5:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
His milkshakes bring all the nutters to the yard, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What do invented saints tell us about Christianity?
November 15, 2019 at 11:48 pm
(November 14, 2019 at 5:33 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (November 14, 2019 at 10:19 am)Jehanne Wrote: In the early days of Christianity, there were few conversions among the educated, say, members of the Roman Senate. Even Josephus, in his tome on the Roman Jewish wars, while discussing Pontinus Pilate at length, never even mentions Jesus.
Granted, it's harder to know the beliefs of the illiterates, because they didn't write things down.
On the other hand, since the educated people all knew that earth is a sphere, we don't know how far this was passed on to less-educated people.
Do you have any historical source making this specific claim -- that the rank and file believed in a flat earth? I don't want to assume it's true without any evidence.
Again, it's in Wikipedia -- some of the pre-Nicene Church fathers believed in a flat Earth.
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RE: What do invented saints tell us about Christianity?
November 16, 2019 at 12:29 am
(November 15, 2019 at 11:48 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (November 14, 2019 at 5:33 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Granted, it's harder to know the beliefs of the illiterates, because they didn't write things down.
On the other hand, since the educated people all knew that earth is a sphere, we don't know how far this was passed on to less-educated people.
Do you have any historical source making this specific claim -- that the rank and file believed in a flat earth? I don't want to assume it's true without any evidence.
Again, it's in Wikipedia -- some of the pre-Nicene Church fathers believed in a flat Earth.
This is what I see on Wikipedia:
Quote:During the early period of the Christian Church, the spherical view continued to be widely held, with some notable exceptions.
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