(November 23, 2019 at 9:21 am)Alex K Wrote:

(November 22, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote: Atheism: The belief that God almost certainly doesn't exist.

Reason for this: There is no evidence for god where there should be (not just that "there is no evidence..." that's agnosticism.)

Counter from theists: God created the universe/did the fine tuning/created humans/the Kalam/The argument from contingency/the Fine Tuning argument etc etc.

My counter for atheism that beats all arguments for God: God doesn't have a brain or neurons - he's immaterial not made of matter or energy - so how can he think thoughts or have knowledge? Without a brain or neurons he couldn't create a universe or create anything else.



I've never got any evidence that God can think without a brain or neurons.

Once you allow magic, anything goes, even thinking without neurons. The crucial point is really that there is no good reason to think that any of that is real.

I disagree with the "no evidence -> agnosticism, no evidence where there should be -> atheism" definition. That sets the bar way to high and would imply that I can only be atheistic wrt falsifiable God hypetheses, and only agnostic towards any nonfalsifiable God hypothesis, and that makes it way too easy on the believers.

Furthermore, I'm not sure that the case can be made that God-supporting evidence 'should be' any where in particular.  I mean, where would one begin looking for such evidence?  Evidence for God is just as likely to be found in a heap of composting manure as it is in a black hole.


Boru

Theistic arguments tend to be self-defeating. Theists will tell you all the things they know about god, yet then claim god is unknowable.

When do we get your argument for atheism + ?

(November 23, 2019 at 10:39 am)Rahn127 Wrote: When do we get your argument for atheism + ?

Atheism+ is so 2012

(November 22, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote: Atheism: The belief that God almost certainly doesn't exist.

Reason for this: There is no evidence for god where there should be (not just that "there is no evidence..." that's agnosticism.)

Counter from theists: God created the universe/did the fine tuning/created humans/the Kalam/The argument from contingency/the Fine Tuning argument etc etc.

My counter for atheism that beats all arguments for God: God doesn't have a brain or neurons - he's immaterial not made of matter or energy - so how can he think thoughts or have knowledge? Without a brain or neurons he couldn't create a universe or create anything else.

I've never got any evidence that God can think without a brain or neurons.

By 'atheism +' do you mean strong or 'positive' atheism? Or are you referring to atheism plus something in addition?

(November 23, 2019 at 4:00 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(November 22, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote: Atheism: The belief that God almost certainly doesn't exist.

Reason for this: There is no evidence for god where there should be (not just that "there is no evidence..." that's agnosticism.)

Counter from theists: God created the universe/did the fine tuning/created humans/the Kalam/The argument from contingency/the Fine Tuning argument etc etc.

My counter for atheism that beats all arguments for God: God doesn't have a brain or neurons - he's immaterial not made of matter or energy - so how can he think thoughts or have knowledge? Without a brain or neurons he couldn't create a universe or create anything else.

I've never got any evidence that God can think without a brain or neurons.

By 'atheism +' do you mean strong or 'positive' atheism? Or are you referring to atheism plus something in addition?

I was wondering about that.  I was hoping it meant 'atheism + broccoli'.  Comes with an eggroll.

Boru

(November 22, 2019 at 11:12 pm)Southern Atheist Wrote:

(November 22, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote: Atheism: The belief that God almost certainly doesn't exist.

Reason for this: There is no evidence for god where there should be (not just that "there is no evidence..." that's agnosticism.)

Counter from theists: God created the universe/did the fine tuning/created humans/the Kalam/The argument from contingency/the Fine Tuning argument etc etc.

My counter for atheism that beats all arguments for God: God doesn't have a brain or neurons - he's immaterial not made of matter or energy - so how can he think thoughts or have knowledge? Without a brain or neurons he couldn't create a universe or create anything else.



I've never got any evidence that God can think without a brain or neurons.

I am new to atheism but consider myself an agnostic atheist, meaning I don't believe in any god claims but I do not claim there is no god. While I think your reason - there is no evidence for god where there should be - is a bit of evidence itself against there being a god I don't think it goes as far as saying there is for sure no god, your counter that defeats all arguments for god... well I don't think its a good one honestly, your giving a god you don't believe actually exist attributes and you have no evidence he actually has these attributes if he were to exist, if there is a god we can't be sure he has what we would know as a brain, we wouldn't know how he functions at all, it would likely be beyond our comprehension at this time. Just because we have no evidence that something can't think without a brain doesn't mean it isn't possible because we don't know everything. Keep reading on these forums and check out some atheist literature or shows like the atheist experience there isn't a single argument that defeats all arguments for god, from what I have seen there simply isn't enough evidence for me to believe that a god exist although again I don't make the claim he doesn't exist.

I don't claim that a God with no brain is impossible but it doesn't seem very likely. Worse than Santa Claus because at least Santa has a brain. If there is no evidence where there should be for something then that thing likely doesn't exist. I disagree that it doesn't defeat all arguments for God because you can just say "how can God do that without a brain or neurons" e.g. "how can God create a universe without a brain or neurons"

"The theist could respond that their god can think and have thoughts without a human/animal like brain and neurons, why, because it's god. "

Yes but then that's not actual evidence that a God can think without neurons/a brain so their argument has failed.

(November 23, 2019 at 4:06 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote:

(November 22, 2019 at 11:12 pm)Southern Atheist Wrote: I am new to atheism but consider myself an agnostic atheist, meaning I don't believe in any god claims but I do not claim there is no god. While I think your reason - there is no evidence for god where there should be - is a bit of evidence itself against there being a god I don't think it goes as far as saying there is for sure no god, your counter that defeats all arguments for god... well I don't think its a good one honestly, your giving a god you don't believe actually exist attributes and you have no evidence he actually has these attributes if he were to exist, if there is a god we can't be sure he has what we would know as a brain, we wouldn't know how he functions at all, it would likely be beyond our comprehension at this time. Just because we have no evidence that something can't think without a brain doesn't mean it isn't possible because we don't know everything. Keep reading on these forums and check out some atheist literature or shows like the atheist experience there isn't a single argument that defeats all arguments for god, from what I have seen there simply isn't enough evidence for me to believe that a god exist although again I don't make the claim he doesn't exist.

I don't claim that a God with no brain is impossible but it doesn't seem very likely. Worse than Santa Claus because at least Santa has a brain. If there is no evidence where there should be for something then that thing likely doesn't exist. I disagree that it doesn't defeat all arguments for God because you can just say "how can God do that without a brain or neurons" e.g. "how can God create a universe without a brain or neurons"

'God works in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform.'  This is just one of the mysteries. 

Bearing in mind, of course, that when a theist says 'mystery', they mean, 'I haven't a fucking clue.  Please go away.'

Boru

A tri-Omni capital G god with free will runs into problems having attributes that contradict each other. If it knows perfectly everything it will do in advance, it can't do anything different or else it doesn't have perfect omniscience and if it can't do anything differently it has neither true omnipotence nor free will.

(November 23, 2019 at 4:00 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(November 22, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote: Atheism: The belief that God almost certainly doesn't exist.

Reason for this: There is no evidence for god where there should be (not just that "there is no evidence..." that's agnosticism.)

Counter from theists: God created the universe/did the fine tuning/created humans/the Kalam/The argument from contingency/the Fine Tuning argument etc etc.

My counter for atheism that beats all arguments for God: God doesn't have a brain or neurons - he's immaterial not made of matter or energy - so how can he think thoughts or have knowledge? Without a brain or neurons he couldn't create a universe or create anything else.

I've never got any evidence that God can think without a brain or neurons.

By 'atheism +' do you mean strong or 'positive' atheism? Or are you referring to atheism plus something in addition?

Atheism plus something in addition being the counter to any argument. Some of the responses I've gotten from a theist are terrible: "W|hy does God require a brain, prove it" < Because thoughts come from the brain.

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(November 23, 2019 at 9:21 am)Alex K Wrote:

(November 22, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote: Atheism: The belief that God almost certainly doesn't exist.

Reason for this: There is no evidence for god where there should be (not just that "there is no evidence..." that's agnosticism.)

Counter from theists: God created the universe/did the fine tuning/created humans/the Kalam/The argument from contingency/the Fine Tuning argument etc etc.

My counter for atheism that beats all arguments for God: God doesn't have a brain or neurons - he's immaterial not made of matter or energy - so how can he think thoughts or have knowledge? Without a brain or neurons he couldn't create a universe or create anything else.



I've never got any evidence that God can think without a brain or neurons.

Once you allow magic, anything goes, even thinking without neurons. The crucial point is really that there is no good reason to think that any of that is real.

I disagree with the "no evidence -> agnosticism, no evidence where there should be -> atheism" definition. That sets the bar way to high and would imply that I can only be atheistic wrt falsifiable God hypetheses, and only agnostic towards any nonfalsifiable God hypothesis, and that makes it way too easy on the believers.

There is no evidence for Aliens: I assume you're agnostic about aliens however?