(November 23, 2019 at 10:30 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote:

(November 23, 2019 at 10:15 pm)brewer Wrote: Superiority is a factor in choosing a diet, fantastic! You sure you're not christian?

BTW, if you think wild game that you can buy in stores is not farmed, think again.

*wild* game is farmed? That's misleading. I'll check it out.

If meat eating was moral I would cease to be vegan. The point is is it does make one morally superior to be vegan *I think*. It has nothing to do with religion. So yes I'm sure I'm not Christian (who tend to eat meat and argue that the bible justifies eating meat so it would make you closer to a Christian if you eat meat.)

"The [b]wild[/b] [b]game[/b] meat we sell is sourced from natural, well-managed estates mostly in the Cumbria and Lancashire areas of the [b]UK[/b]. The [b]wild[/b] venison, grouse, partridge, [b]wild[/b] duck, wood pigeon and rabbit we sell is all shot from natural habitats so has a totally natural grain free diet and is not [b]farmed[/b] or handled."www.primalmeats.co.uk/product-category/wild-game/

Don't be gullible and believe everything you read. Estates, yeah right, another word for ranch. That would include fences, herd management, supplied food/water, ............ We have those in the US also, I've been to them hunting. 

Did you read :"a by-product of their commercial operation"? Sounds like a ranch/farm to me. And did you notice how they didn't talk about how they maintain the supply of venison, grouse, partridge. duck, ...................... for the corporate operation? I think maybe you should pay them a visit. 

Also did you even read about their farming?: https://www.primalmeats.co.uk/regenerative-farming/

The photo shop picture of the cow/calf was priceless.

I want to eat meat because it tastes good. All vegans crave the taste imo. But I can't allow myself to do it unless it's moral. Not a fraud therefore.

---

(November 23, 2019 at 11:10 pm)brewer Wrote:

(November 23, 2019 at 10:30 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote: *wild* game is farmed? That's misleading. I'll check it out.

If meat eating was moral I would cease to be vegan. The point is is it does make one morally superior to be vegan *I think*. It has nothing to do with religion. So yes I'm sure I'm not Christian (who tend to eat meat and argue that the bible justifies eating meat so it would make you closer to a Christian if you eat meat.)

"The [b]wild[/b] [b]game[/b] meat we sell is sourced from natural, well-managed estates mostly in the Cumbria and Lancashire areas of the [b]UK[/b]. The [b]wild[/b] venison, grouse, partridge, [b]wild[/b] duck, wood pigeon and rabbit we sell is all shot from natural habitats so has a totally natural grain free diet and is not [b]farmed[/b] or handled."www.primalmeats.co.uk/product-category/wild-game/

Don't be gullible and believe everything you read. Estates, yeah right, another word for ranch. That would include fences, herd management, supplied food/water, ............ We have those in the US also, I've been to them hunting. 

Did you read :"a by-product of their commercial operation"? Sounds like a ranch/farm to me. And did you notice how they didn't talk about how they maintain the supply of venison, grouse, partridge. duck, ...................... for the corporate operation? I think maybe you should pay them a visit. 

Also did you even read about their farming?: https://www.primalmeats.co.uk/regenerative-farming/

The photo shop picture of the cow/calf was priceless.

Okay well that's my idea down the drain. No meat for me.
https://www.wildmeat.co.uk/pages/our-game

(November 23, 2019 at 6:50 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote: 1) If we were all vegan there would be no starving people?
2) Animals killed on the farm feel pain when killed (being electrocuted then bolted in the head would hurt a lot. Sometimes the machine goes wrong and the bolt doesn't kill the animal "quickly", causing even more suffering to the animal.)
3) A meat eater diet damages the environment more so than a vegan one.

1. Is that a question, because you phrased it as a statement.
2. I said killed quickly, not tormented.
3. You'd have to have evidence of that claim.

Listen, you asked a question. I answered it. If this is just a guise to try to convert me to your way of thinking, I'm going to eat a burger in protest. I can't stand that shit. I have access to the same information you have. I came to a different, yummy, conclusion.

(November 23, 2019 at 11:14 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(November 23, 2019 at 6:50 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote: 1) If we were all vegan there would be no starving people?
2) Animals killed on the farm feel pain when killed (being electrocuted then bolted in the head would hurt a lot. Sometimes the machine goes wrong and the bolt doesn't kill the animal "quickly", causing even more suffering to the animal.)
3) A meat eater diet damages the environment more so than a vegan one.

1. Is that a question, because you phrased it as a statement.
2. I said killed quickly, not tormented.
3. You'd have to have evidence of that claim.

Listen, you asked a question. I answered it. If this is just a guise to try to convert me to your way of thinking, I'm going to eat a burger in protest. I can't stand that shit. I have access to the same information you have. I came to a different, yummy, conclusion.

1) It's a question.
2) Why do you think being electrocuted and bolted in the head is a "quick" death? Sounds very painful to me. Also sometimes the machinery goes wrong and it takes them even longer to die.
3) There is evidence I thought: https://www.livekindly.co/this-is-why-a-...vironment/ Hmm they do say "could help..."
What's wrong with trying to convert someone to your way of thinking?

If it's not me it's another animal or natural causes.

We've just streamlined it, Also I'm a sucker for bacon burgers.

Hehe yeah in terms of taste lamb is my favourite.

I have no issue with hunting for food, so long as you do what you can to drop them in one clean shot, then use every bit of the animal. It's a terrible thing to waste a life.

As far as ethics go with meat eating, I believe we as a society in general eat far too much. To help fuel the meat industry countless animals are raised and killed in horrendous conditions, wallowing in their filth their entire lives and never feeling the warmth of the sun.

I have no issue in raising livestock for meat, so long as the animals are allowed to roam and herd and exhibit natural behaviors, given veterinarian care if needed, fed a natural diet/allowed to forage, sustainable practices are utilized, and overall the animals are treated with kindness and respect. If we cut down on our meat consumption farms like this could easily replace factory farms--better for us, the animals, and the environment.

I believe some meat and animal products are necessary for a healthy human diet. We have meat to thank for our big brains. I have to eat iron-rich meat as I can't absorb plant-based iron very easily. My grandma has this same problem.

And, well, meat is delicious.

Farmed venison, in the us, is at least partly responsible for the spread of chronic wasting disease. The deer stumble around, drooling...aggressive, skin and bones. There's no known treatment, it's always fatal.

(November 24, 2019 at 3:42 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Farmed venison, in the us, is at least partly responsible for the spread of chronic wasting disease.  The deer stumble around, drooling...aggressive, skin and bones.  There's no known treatment, it's always fatal.

We've not seen that here yet.  But it's likely just a matter of time.  Going to be a nightmare if CWD ever makes it here - deer farming is a pretty sizeable industry.

Boru

(November 23, 2019 at 7:31 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote: I don't eat animals because they feel pain EDIT: but hunted animals would feel a lot less pain than if kept in the wild to suffer and die naturally...

I'm trying to imagine how lions would react to having their tea shot for them.
You know save them all that running about biting, advancing behaviour.

It doesn't matter how many antelope you shoot the fucking lions with their long sharp pointy teeth will still tear open, and chomp on live ones.

I've got it! Shoot the fucking lions!