(December 14, 2019 at 10:25 pm)Figbash Wrote:

(November 1, 2019 at 12:25 pm)Divinity Wrote: I hope you find out what house it came from, and then do the right thing: Buy plenty of Eggs and Toilet Paper.

(December 14, 2019 at 7:58 pm)Shell B Wrote: As alarming as it is, the majority of the times I remember being groped, it was in my teens by an older man. I wonder if that's true for most women.

Same. Typically anywhere there was a crowd of people (concerts especially).
My first experience with sexual harassment by an older man was when I was 12 (sexual gestures and grabbing his crotch).

Yes! I've been groped at concerts when I was younger too. One got punched in the face. Surprised the hell out of him when I turned around. I've been felt up in much more private settings too, but concerts were a favorite of fuckheads.

(December 15, 2019 at 4:35 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(December 14, 2019 at 7:58 pm)Shell B Wrote: As alarming as it is, the majority of the times I remember being groped, it was in my teens by an older man. I wonder if that's true for most women.

I feel I have to apologise on behalf of my gender. You shouldn't have to put have put up with that.

You don't. Thank you, though.

(December 14, 2019 at 8:25 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(December 14, 2019 at 7:58 pm)Shell B Wrote: As alarming as it is, the majority of the times I remember being groped, it was in my teens by an older man. I wonder if that's true for most women.

Given that I’ve seen some studies (fuck if I know where) that men (from infancy to old age) seem to respond the best to the faces of teenage girls, and that older people tend to be given a lot of leeway to act inappropriately (or just plain not give a shit about social norms), this seems remarkably plausible. It’s a shame that this is way too commonplace to get some actual numbers in a study.

I hope girls aren't raised to respect their elders anymore. I hope they're raised to sock an old pervert.

I have been seeing some things online lately about not making kids hug relatives, etc. at family gatherings. This is especially a thing during the holidays. Kids should have the right to do so organically and not it be something expected of them. It's a setup for later when people touch without prompting. We have to do a better job of letting kids know that they have the right to decline hugs and kisses from family that may be people they only see once or twice a year. It sets a really bad precedence and takes all power away when it comes to control over their own bodies.

The line regarding unwelcome touching is often blurry from the start. It's confusing and difficult to navigate.

(December 15, 2019 at 8:47 pm)Cecelia Wrote: I feel like almost every woman I know has been groped without her permission at least once in her life.  It's ridiculous.  Why do some guys think it's okay?  I feel like one of these days it's going to happen to me and I'm not going to feel so generous as to let them off with yelling "Creep!" at them.  Last time it happened to my sister, the guy did NOT realize that she was a kickboxing instructor.

I don't know any women who haven't been groped, assaulted or worse. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but I can think of a few that I simply haven't talked to about it.

This isn't a blame the victim thing AT ALL. However, a few tips for not getting groped:

Don't hang out with drunk, immature men.
Try not to be left alone for even a few minutes with guys you don't know very well. If you do know them, and they suck, avoid them too.
Don't get very shitfaced without a sober friend to make sure you're able to say no to any guys you haven't already established consent with sober.

If groped, the heel of your hand makes a great hammer for hitting people in the face. Take self-defense courses regularly.

Good luck out there.

(December 15, 2019 at 9:17 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(December 14, 2019 at 8:25 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Given that I’ve seen some studies (fuck if I know where) that men (from infancy to old age) seem to respond the best to the faces of teenage girls, and that older people tend to be given a lot of leeway to act inappropriately (or just plain not give a shit about social norms), this seems remarkably plausible. It’s a shame that this is way too commonplace to get some actual numbers in a study.

I hope girls aren't raised to respect their elders anymore. I hope they're raised to sock an old pervert.

Actually, I was thinking more "Screw politeness, I'm a Senior" and just giving up on expecting them to change their ways than any sort of "Respect your elders"



Yeah, remember when we thought widespread overt racial prejudice would die off when the Baby Boomers who helped force the government to give a shit about racial injustice became the oldest generation of consequence? Good times.

(December 14, 2019 at 11:12 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: I used to be a bouncer in a country/western bar that was owned by a couple in our neighborhood that I went to school with.

During deer hunting season they used to bring in male strippers for the "Whitetail Widows."

Just me, 8 or 9 security guys, a half dozen male strippers, and 400 or so horny women. I would get groped 50 times or more just walking across the bar.

I felt "so violated".

....

I miss that place.....

(December 15, 2019 at 9:27 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I have been seeing some things online lately about not making kids hug relatives, etc. at family gatherings.  This is especially a thing during the holidays.  Kids should have the right to do so organically and not it be something expected of them.  It's a setup for later when people touch without prompting.  We have to do a better job of letting kids know that they have the right to decline hugs and kisses from family that may be people they only see once or twice a year.  It sets a really bad precedence and takes all power away when it comes to control over their own bodies.

The line regarding unwelcome touching is often blurry from the start.  It's confusing and difficult to navigate.

So howcome - when women grope a guy (and seriously - I have had it happen) it's responded to with a wink and a smile?

Never mind that we like it.....

Aren't we guys victims??



......

Twisted, ain' t it?


 

(December 15, 2019 at 10:07 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: So howcome - when women grope a guy (and seriously - I have had it happen) it's responded to with a wink and a smile?

Never mind that we like it.....
 

I've mentioned before (in this thread) that I had a female coworker who groped other coworkers, but they were female, and to be honest, examples like that really make the limitations of the "abuse/assault/misconduct is all about maintaining and exercising power" paradigm clear. It doesn't totally invalidate it, sure, but it's clear that it's not the only factor to keep track of.

(December 15, 2019 at 10:07 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(December 14, 2019 at 11:12 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: I used to be a bouncer in a country/western bar that was owned by a couple in our neighborhood that I went to school with.

During deer hunting season they used to bring in male strippers for the "Whitetail Widows."

Just me, 8 or 9 security guys, a half dozen male strippers, and 400 or so horny women. I would get groped 50 times or more just walking across the bar.

I felt "so violated".

....

I miss that place.....

(December 15, 2019 at 9:27 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I have been seeing some things online lately about not making kids hug relatives, etc. at family gatherings.  This is especially a thing during the holidays.  Kids should have the right to do so organically and not it be something expected of them.  It's a setup for later when people touch without prompting.  We have to do a better job of letting kids know that they have the right to decline hugs and kisses from family that may be people they only see once or twice a year.  It sets a really bad precedence and takes all power away when it comes to control over their own bodies.

The line regarding unwelcome touching is often blurry from the start.  It's confusing and difficult to navigate.

So howcome - when women grope a guy (and seriously - I have had it happen) it's responded to with a wink and a smile?

Never mind that we like it.....

Aren't we guys victims??



......

Twisted, ain' t it?


 

Not all guys want to be groped.  I am sure there are women who like to be groped. At it's most basic of it is that no one has the right to touch someone without their consent.

How one person reacts to being touched without consent has nothing to do with the overall fact that no one should be touching other people without their consent.

(December 15, 2019 at 10:07 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(December 14, 2019 at 11:12 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: I used to be a bouncer in a country/western bar that was owned by a couple in our neighborhood that I went to school with.

During deer hunting season they used to bring in male strippers for the "Whitetail Widows."

Just me, 8 or 9 security guys, a half dozen male strippers, and 400 or so horny women. I would get groped 50 times or more just walking across the bar.

I felt "so violated".

....

I miss that place.....

(December 15, 2019 at 9:27 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I have been seeing some things online lately about not making kids hug relatives, etc. at family gatherings.  This is especially a thing during the holidays.  Kids should have the right to do so organically and not it be something expected of them.  It's a setup for later when people touch without prompting.  We have to do a better job of letting kids know that they have the right to decline hugs and kisses from family that may be people they only see once or twice a year.  It sets a really bad precedence and takes all power away when it comes to control over their own bodies.

The line regarding unwelcome touching is often blurry from the start.  It's confusing and difficult to navigate.

So howcome - when women grope a guy (and seriously - I have had it happen) it's responded to with a wink and a smile?

Never mind that we like it.....

Aren't we guys victims??



......

Twisted, ain' t it?


 

Yes, I’ve seen it too.

And I also consider that to be secual assault. But I’ve seen different reactions.

Some guys enjoy it and encourage it. Few women do. Flirting a bit isn’t an open invitation to grope.

When a guy is groped and speaks out about it, I’ve seen his friend give him shit about not being a man.