(March 21, 2020 at 11:04 am)WinterHold Wrote: You cry because Coronavirus is killing some thousands of you.

But why didn't you cry for Chinese Uighur Muslims butchered by the communist government?
Why didn't you cry for the Millions in Syria killed by Assad?
Why didn't you cry for Millions killed in Yemen by Saudi/U.A.E airstrikes?
Why didn't you cry for thousands tortured in prisons of Saudi Arabia?

Does humanity of today deserve covid-19 ?
I say yes.
Millions would also say yes.

Just like when the Black Death came.

I agree with your strict criticism of humanity. I think I won't follow you in saying that this makes the virus deserved, especially.

There's no doubt at all that humanity, both individually and collectively, falls far short of what we could and should be. Every one of us is selfish, hypocritical, and self-justifying. Ideally our institutions would make it easier for us to be good, but they aren't set up that way. For the most part they encourage and reward our worst behavior. 

I suspect that human beings evolved our ability to do abstract reasoning mostly so we can invent reasons to justify our horribleness. Otherwise it would be too hard to face. 

And I agree that we are right to see this as a failing intrinsic to humanity, and not one portion or subset. One of the ways we overlook our own horribleness is by pointing to groups of which we are not members. It's easy to pretend that religion (to use the common example on this forum) is the key factor in our evil, when there is no reason to think that the absence of religion would improve things much. The evil is baked in. 

Like it or not, European thought about all of this comes largely through a Christian tradition. It is normal in Christian writing to say that nearly every one of us, if we got what we really deserved, would be condemned. But the point of grace is that we are saved even though we don't deserve it. I don't know how mainstream it is, but there is a mystical tradition in St. Theresa of Avila, William Blake, and many others, who say that while it is Christ who grants grace, Christ only works through the actions of living people. With the conclusion being that it is the responsibility of each of us to save who we can, deserving or not. Is there a parallel tradition in Islam, I wonder? 

As to collective punishment from the virus: the trouble is that karma isn't properly distributed. Though everyone is guilty, some are way more guilty than others. The people with the least guilt (the poor and powerless) will suffer most, while the most guilty get early testing and superior health care. 

So I think we mustn't enjoy schadenfreude from natural disasters, as they don't bring about real justice. Anything which serves to intensify the evil results of our evil institutions (e.g. for-profit health care) can't be called good.

(March 21, 2020 at 6:13 pm)Belacqua Wrote: I agree with your strict criticism of humanity. I think I won't follow you in saying that this makes the virus deserved, especially.

There's no doubt at all that humanity, both individually and collectively, falls far short of what we could and should be. Every one of us is selfish, hypocritical, and self-justifying. Ideally our institutions would make it easier for us to be good, but they aren't set up that way. For the most part they encourage and reward our worst behavior. 

Of course you do. You hold forth a standard which cannot be met, and promptly complain when nobody meets that standard that cannot be met.

That is assinine.

(March 21, 2020 at 11:04 am)WinterHold Wrote: You cry because Coronavirus is killing some thousands of you.

But why didn't you cry for Chinese Uighur Muslims butchered by the communist government?
Why didn't you cry for the Millions in Syria killed by Assad?
Why didn't you cry for Millions killed in Yemen by Saudi/U.A.E airstrikes?
Why didn't you cry for thousands tortured in prisons of Saudi Arabia?

Does humanity of today deserve covid-19 ?
I say yes.
Millions would also say yes.

Just like when the Black Death came.

...thousands of you...what does that even mean?  Who is you?

Do you deserve the illness you say you have?  If so, why do you deserve it?

Have you gone off your antidepressant?

This is about the silliest thread title I've ever read.

Did the dinosaurs deserve the asteroid because some didn't cry over T-rex deaths?

See, silly, right?

I bought some McDonalds some years ago and the silly girl put an extra 5 bucks in my change!

I didn't say or do anything at the time to rectify this gross injustice ....

For years I've always suspected that karma will try to realign the universe because of this with some sort of catastrophic event.
It's all happening before me.

Yeah, sorry about that...

(March 21, 2020 at 11:04 am)WinterHold Wrote: You cry because Coronavirus is killing some thousands of you.

But why didn't you cry for Chinese Uighur Muslims butchered by the communist government?
Why didn't you cry for the Millions in Syria killed by Assad?
Why didn't you cry for Millions killed in Yemen by Saudi/U.A.E airstrikes?
Why didn't you cry for thousands tortured in prisons of Saudi Arabia?

Does humanity of today deserve covid-19 ?
I say yes.
Millions would also say yes.

Just like when the Black Death came.

This is an impressive failure in morality, compassion, and even common sense.

Certainly there is suffering in the world. How will more suffering be an improvement?

Did you shed a tear for the Tibetan Buddhists slain by the Chinese? Do you weep for the Bahai or the Yazidi? Or do you only become indignant when it is your own that are harmed?

COVID-19 won't care whether you've been good or bad or which direction you pray. It will replicate in your lung tissue just as happily as mine. I don't think that either of us deserve that but you may be too much of a zealot to understand why I wouldn't wish you harm.

I feel the religious have a more simplistic binary outlook on life.
But at the same time, that's what drew them to religion in the first place.

But our universe only comes in a million shades of grey. The religious are even more lost now in the confusion.
Pray harder is all they understand and find comfort in.

(*not all religious are like this)

(March 21, 2020 at 6:13 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Every one of us is selfish, hypocritical, and self-justifying.

Hey, talk about yourself, you bigot.

(March 22, 2020 at 3:59 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(March 21, 2020 at 6:13 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Every one of us is selfish, hypocritical, and self-justifying.

Hey, talk about yourself, you bigot.

I was talking about myself. The first person plural pronoun includes the speaker. I am aware of a great many failings in myself, and I think about them a lot. 

You seem to have been affected by the fact that you got called a name the other day. This surprises me, because on this forum people pass harsh judgment all the time. You have quite strong things to say about many other people nearly every day. 

Is this the first time someone has called you a name? Does it bother you to have someone pass judgment on you? 

If you are offended I can explain in detail why I think you are bigoted, and we can talk about it.

(March 22, 2020 at 4:59 am)Belacqua Wrote: I was talking about myself. The first person plural pronoun includes the speaker. I am aware of a great many failings in myself, and I think about them a lot. 

Hey, you didn't say "I", you said "Every one of us", so don't talk your bigoted crap about me or anyone else but yourself. You can't lie your way out of this.