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What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 1:40 pm
I have posted this question on one of the philosophy forums but I would also like to ask the question over here. This question is mainly for monotheists or anyone else who believes in a God who dishes out punishments.
If God holds us responsible for causing harm, then why doesn't he punish him self since if he is omniscient and omnipotent then he is intentionally the major cause of all suffering.
So it would be only fair from him considering all of the natural disasters only that he should put him self in hell for eternity ? That's if he is as just and fair as he says he is!!!
Thoughts
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RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 2:00 pm
I don't believe in god but thought I'd jump in quickly. I pointed that out sometime ago, in different words.
I pointed out the fallacy of an all knowing god and hell. If he's all knowing, then he knew that his creation would behave a certain way and why. So for him to continue with his creation for which he knew would think and behave a certain way then sending them to hell to be punished for doing what he created them to do would make absolutely no sense at all.
Our points are similar. The more you think and look into it all, the less sense it seems to make.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 2:04 pm
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2011 at 2:05 pm by downbeatplumb.)
Which god.
My favourite is Dionysus roman god of Grapes and wine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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What does PEL deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 2:19 pm
Pel, you believe in an infinitely loving and compassionate god - correct?
What religion is this god of? Because CLEARLY it is not Christianity. Their god is a jealous, egotistical, sadistic son-of-a-bitch.
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RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 3:37 pm
I believe in a deistic God. And right now I am questioning even that to be honest with you. I am still in favour of their being a God but its getting harder and harder to believe, then again because of some of my experiences it its hard not to believe.
Thanks
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RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 3:55 pm
I've said elsewhere on this forum that if Jesus turns out to be real, he is the least fit being in the universe to sit in judgment of anyone.
If it turns out Christianity is true, than it means that Jesus watched over our world and witnessed his followers killing, torturing and otherwise persecuting in his name. It means he watched his followers stand in the way of every form of sociological and technological progress, thereby indirectly causing needless suffering. He watched as charlatans got rich off the most vulnerable. He stood by and saw all this and did nothing.
Forget the "free will" of miscreants who victimize others for their own reasons. Forget the suffering cause by natural catastrophe. Forget all the good that might have come from some basic admonishments against slavery, in favor of equality and distribution of real knowledge about hygiene and disease (rather than illness being caused by sin and demons) when Jesus walked the earth and preached his message. Forget all that and consider only the tacit approval of all the bloodshed, terror and misery promoted in his name.
It is he who should beg our forgiveness. Not the other way around.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 4:07 pm
electric chair or lethal injection for genocide.
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RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 4:09 pm
(July 8, 2011 at 3:55 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: I've said elsewhere on this forum that if Jesus turns out to be real, he is the least fit being in the universe to sit in judgment of anyone.
If it turns out Christianity is true, than it means that Jesus watched over our world and witnessed his followers killing, torturing and otherwise persecuting in his name. It means he watched his followers stand in the way of every form of sociological and technological progress, thereby indirectly causing needless suffering. He watched as charlatans got rich off the most vulnerable. He stood by and saw all this and did nothing.
Forget the "free will" of miscreants who victimize others for their own reasons. Forget the suffering cause by natural catastrophe. Forget all the good that might have come from some basic admonishments against slavery, in favor of equality and distribution of real knowledge about hygiene and disease (rather than illness being caused by sin and demons) when Jesus walked the earth and preached his message. Forget all that and consider only the tacit approval of all the bloodshed, terror and misery promoted in his name.
It is he who should beg our forgiveness. Not the other way around.
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RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 4:13 pm
(This post was last modified: July 8, 2011 at 4:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I believe, that the argument is something along the lines of Jesus as Reality Show Producer. He's just building the tension until the big reveal...or maybe sweeps.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What does God deserve?
July 8, 2011 at 4:20 pm
(July 8, 2011 at 3:37 pm)Pel Wrote: I believe in a deistic God. And right now I am questioning even that to be honest with you. I am still in favour of their being a God but its getting harder and harder to believe, then again because of some of my experiences it its hard not to believe.
Thanks
There were events in my life that I could of said were because of god. Like how I ended up stuck in North Wales and in the middle of a fucking storm in a broken down car, right next to a river with a strong flow of water running by, miles from home and absolutely cold with no money. Managed to get home in just a few hours despite all the heavy trouble I was in. God never had anything to do with it. All thanks go to the Welsh and my wealthy nan. Nice people the Welsh. 
Look into every experience and not just in the religious sense. Try and look for scientific reasons. You'll find more sense in things. Seeing as science can explain things with a lot of detail. Religion can only offer the "goddidit" answer.
I don't know what your experiences are that lead you to believe in god but I'm quite sure I could explain away some or many of them. However, your reasons are your reasons and I won't ever dispute that.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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