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RE: Is there a contradiction in the Qur'an?
April 7, 2020 at 2:26 pm
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2020 at 2:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 7, 2020 at 2:13 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (April 7, 2020 at 1:51 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You were presented with piles of them - you simply believe that the mistakes are not mistakes. This is also what I expect from the OP.
I recall responding to you for each one of these supposed mistakes, and I didn't get a reply after that. It's not just because you say this verse is a mistake that I should take your word for it. Even if we are biased to our holy book, if someone actually finds a mistake, he should be able to back us into a corner. -another pointless argument that mistakes aren't mistakes - inception style, since it's combined with a pointless argument about your own mistakes not being mistakes... which is exactly the thing that demonstrates these requests to be in bad faith.
Quote: (April 7, 2020 at 1:51 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I'll add one just to get the ball rolling. If the asserted perfection of a magic book indicates that there is a god, then the factual imperfection of said book would be expected to have the reverse effect. Neither you nor our other friend believes this, however. You would both insist that the christian magic book is full of errors, but neither of you think that the christian magic book..being full of errors, means that your allegedly shared god does not exist. There are christians who are also inerrant literalists who make the same claim (and even poiintlessly argue that mistakes are not mistakes) - but you would no more accept that claim or those excuses than I would accept you or our new friends own.
What exactly do you mean by factual imperfection..? Where is it located specifically in the Qur'an..? The gospel accounts were selected out of hundreds other anonymous writings back in the First council of Nicaea.... I don't see how this is even comparable to the Qur'an, which started literally as a pure "audio" book, not written anywhere. It was recorded mouth to ear from hundreds of companions of Muhammad.
I think I already said all holy books presuppose god. In any case, this is very true in the Qur'an, no verse attempts to provide a case for god. And the Qur'an responds literally to every claim Meccan pagans made, and every accusation they threw at the prophet back then. None of these has anything to do with god. There we have it. You reject their claims, you reject their excuses, and you show that even if pagans™ did exactly what you insisted that they did not, you would simply argue that they were wrong.
Quote: (April 7, 2020 at 1:51 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: In mere reality, the issue of whether or not a magic book is gods word and whether or not it contains internal or external errors are entirely separate questions.
I agree. But again, it would be progress in this kind of discussions if non Muslims just drop this baseless charge of mistakes existing somewhere. Great, I'll let you handle the OP's misapprehensions then. Good luck. He indicated above that there was a mistake made which caused you to believe that Big Mo was illiterate.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is there a contradiction in the Qur'an?
April 7, 2020 at 2:38 pm
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2020 at 2:40 pm by Duty.)
Many more contradictions than 1 - and I have actually read the thing, dull and repetitive as it is. Here's a big contradiction to get you started: it says Allah is merciful yet also that non-believers (nobody has any control over what they believe - we only believe what we perceive to be the truth) will be tortured for all eternity in hell.
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RE: Is there a contradiction in the Qur'an?
April 7, 2020 at 2:44 pm
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2020 at 2:45 pm by R00tKiT.)
(April 7, 2020 at 2:26 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: -another pointless argument that mistakes aren't mistakes - inception style, since it's combined with a pointless argument about your own mistakes not being mistakes...which is exactly the thing that demonstrates these requests to be in bad faith.
I agree it's not very useful to discuss internal mistakes if we disagree about god. But if you're not prepared to back up one you claim you found... don't bring it up. Again, this is a book by which we pray five times a day, all our life. And again, I am gladly welcoming anyone pointing out a simple, unavoidable, clear mistake, I would be eternally grateful.
(April 7, 2020 at 2:26 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There we have it. You reject their claims, you reject their excuses, and you show that even if pagans™ did exactly what you insisted that they did not, you would simply argue that they were wrong.
And where is the problem with that exactly...?
(April 7, 2020 at 2:26 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Great, I'll let you handle the OP's misapprehensions then. Good luck. He indicated above that there was a mistake made which caused you to believe that Big Mo was illiterate.
He simply claimed Muhammad wrote the Qur'an in a paper, lol. There were no papers in his time, first of all. Second, I never heard a Muslim saying that in my life. Third, I am not going to handle his misapprehensions, I think he knows them but somewhat his language betrays him
(April 7, 2020 at 2:38 pm)Editz Wrote: Many more contradictions than 1 - and I have actually read the thing, dull and repetitive as it is. Here's a big contradiction to get you started: it says Allah is merciful yet also that non-believers (nobody has any control over what they believe - we only believe what we perceive to be the truth) will be tortured for all eternity in hell.
Bro, there are responses to the problem of Evil out there, look them up. And this is not specific to the Qur'an, and therefore, it's off topic.
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RE: Is there a contradiction in the Qur'an?
April 7, 2020 at 2:48 pm
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2020 at 2:50 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 7, 2020 at 2:44 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (April 7, 2020 at 2:26 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: -another pointless argument that mistakes aren't mistakes - inception style, since it's combined with a pointless argument about your own mistakes not being mistakes...which is exactly the thing that demonstrates these requests to be in bad faith.
I agree it's not very useful to discuss internal mistakes if we disagree about god. But if you're not prepared to back up one you claim you found... don't bring it up. Again, this is a book by which we pray five times a day, all our life. And again, I am gladly welcoming anyone pointing out a simple, unavoidable, clear mistake, I would be eternally grateful.
You aren't agreeing with me. You;re imagining that I'm saying whatever you believe, lol.
It could be very useful to discuss internal and external mistakes in magic book.. regardless of whether we disagree about gods - because they're entirely separate questions.
It simply isn't useful when you will not adhere to any criteria of -that- discussion..internal and external errors in a magic book..even when you offer the criteria.
Quote: (April 7, 2020 at 2:26 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There we have it. You reject their claims, you reject their excuses, and you show that even if pagans™ did exactly what you insisted that they did not, you would simply argue that they were wrong.
And where is the problem with that exactly...? Can't help you there. It's not a problem for me at all.
Quote: (April 7, 2020 at 2:26 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Great, I'll let you handle the OP's misapprehensions then. Good luck. He indicated above that there was a mistake made which caused you to believe that Big Mo was illiterate.
He simply claimed Muhammad wrote the Qur'an in a paper, lol. There were no papers in his time, first of all. Second, I never heard a Muslim saying that in my life. Third, I am not going to handle his misapprehensions, I think he knows them but somewhat his language betrays him Now we're on to pointless lying about pointless things. That;s not what he said..and what he said exists on the boards for anyone to read.
I'd already written you off as a loon with severely impaired critical abilities, no reason to add craven liar to the mix.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is there a contradiction in the Qur'an?
April 7, 2020 at 2:54 pm
(April 7, 2020 at 7:12 am)KuranMumini19 Wrote: (April 7, 2020 at 7:07 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Good luck finding someone who gives a shit.
Boru
I invite you to discuss it. Are you going to avoid arguing like zebras?
Your parents must be proud of themselves, Pile.
I've never seen shit stacked so high in my life.
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RE: Is there a contradiction in the Qur'an?
April 7, 2020 at 2:58 pm
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2020 at 2:59 pm by R00tKiT.)
(April 7, 2020 at 2:48 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You aren't agreeing with me. You;re imagining that I'm saying whatever you believe, lol.
It could be very useful to discuss internal and external mistakes in magic book..regardless of whether we disagree about gods - because they're entirely separate questions.
It simply isn't useful when you will not adhere to any criteria of -that- discussion..internal and external errors in a magic book..even when you offer the criteria.
Quote:And where is the problem with that exactly...?
Can't help you there. It's not a problem for me at all.
Quote:He simply claimed Muhammad wrote the Qur'an in a paper, lol. There were no papers in his time, first of all. Second, I never heard a Muslim saying that in my life. Third, I am not going to handle his misapprehensions, I think he knows them but somewhat his language betrays him
Now we're on to pointless lying about pointless things. That;s not what he said..and what he said exists on the boards for anyone to read.
I'd already written you off as a loon with severely impaired critical abilities, no reason to add craven liar to the mix.
Can you elaborate on the criteria you're referring to?
Is it that you think Muhammad is actually literate? And that you have something to back this up?
Anyway, here is what he said :
(April 7, 2020 at 12:47 pm)KuranMumini19 Wrote: The system of 19 proves that the Qur'an is the word of God.
Muhammad took the Quran as a revelation by God and wrote it himself on the paper.
Pen Surah 1: Nun, the pen, and what they write.
Muhammad can write really fast, it appears... directly contradicts 7:158. And we have an actual paper in Muhammad's time, told ya 
Now time to drop the liar charge, be honest once in your life, could you...?
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RE: Is there a contradiction in the Qur'an?
April 7, 2020 at 3:02 pm
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2020 at 3:03 pm by Duty.)
(April 7, 2020 at 2:44 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Bro, there are responses to the problem of Evil out there, look them up. And this is not specific to the Qur'an, and therefore, it's off topic.
1. I'm not your bro, fuckwit.
2. I've asked you to link to these "easy" solutions to the "problem of evil" and you cannot! I've even said "please link" lots! I'll ask again - please link!? Moreover:
3. The example of a contradiction in the koran I illustrated has got basically FUCK ALL todo with the "problem of evil" so your response, posted above, is irrelevant to what I posted.
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RE: Is there a contradiction in the Qur'an?
April 7, 2020 at 3:05 pm
In the US, we call cowardice "chicken." In one version of the game of Chicken, two drivers race their cars straight toward each other. The driver who changes course, "chickens out" and loses. It makes for bad adolescent choices but good cinema.
That analogy doesn't hold up for zebras. A zebra would trample your prophet.
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RE: Is there a contradiction in the Qur'an?
April 7, 2020 at 3:08 pm
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2020 at 3:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Craven...liar, lol.
(April 7, 2020 at 1:31 pm)KuranMumini19 Wrote: (April 7, 2020 at 1:15 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Muhammad PBUH, in spite of his obvious eloquence, couldn't read or write, he was illiterate, according to the Qur'an itself ;
Say, “O people, I am the Messenger of God to you all—He to whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth. There is no god but He. He gives life and causes death.” So believe in God and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believes in God and His words. And follow him, that you may be guided. (7/158).
So, one way his contemporaries could've directly discredited him was to spot him actually write something or get knowledge from books. This would invalidate the above mentioned verse of the Qur'an, and a fortiori his prophecy claim;
The meaning of the word" Ummi " has been shifted and it has been claimed that our prophet is illiterate. See verses 3:20 and 2:78 for the true meaning of the word" Ummi".
The meaning of the word" Ummi " was falsified and the lie that the Prophet Muhammad was illiterate was fabricated. See 2:78; 7: 157. The word Ummi is used for those who are not the people of the book, and it also means the Capital City (2:92), referring to the capital Mecca, which is defined as Ummul-Kura (mother of cities). In both senses, historically, they coincide with each other, because the Meccans were not generally people of the book.
(April 7, 2020 at 2:58 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Can you elaborate on the criteria you're referring to?
Your criteria...any criteria you have yet offered...and I've been explicit in this multiple times across multiple threads. It's one thing for us to have a fundamental difference in how we organize our thoughts..which, apparently, we do. It's another for you to demand things, receive them, and then plow ahead regardless. This..this..is what makes these sorts of discussions pointless.
If you ask for a reason like x - and then get one..that's it. It's done. You might think that the reason x is wrong, but it's what you asked for, and obviously isn't informative...not even to you. Hardly a reason to make the request, huh?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is there a contradiction in the Qur'an?
April 7, 2020 at 3:14 pm
(April 7, 2020 at 3:02 pm)Editz Wrote: (April 7, 2020 at 2:44 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Bro, there are responses to the problem of Evil out there, look them up. And this is not specific to the Qur'an, and therefore, it's off topic.
1. I'm not your bro, fuckwit.
2. I've asked you to link to these "easy" solutions to the "problem of evil" and you cannot! I've even said "please link" lots! I'll ask again - please link!? Moreover:
3. The example of a contradiction in the koran I illustrated has got basically FUCK ALL todo with the "problem of evil" so your response, posted above, is irrelevant to what I posted.
Okay, fuckwit. Here are some links;
https://www.hamzatzortzis.com/is-god-mer...suffering/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/#FreWil
Now disappear for a few days and do some actual readings. Criticising the Qur'an is really not for newbies, whatever your beliefs happen to be.
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