Posts: 67034
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 25, 2011 at 10:29 pm
And if you choose not to give him the wallet.....you deserve the bullet.
That's what Ryfts arguing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 795
Threads: 27
Joined: July 1, 2009
Reputation:
27
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 25, 2011 at 10:32 pm
(October 25, 2011 at 10:29 pm)Rhythm Wrote: And if you choose not to give him the wallet, then you deserve the bullet. That's what Ryft's arguing.
Except that it was not what I was arguing at all.
Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)
Posts: 12806
Threads: 158
Joined: February 13, 2010
Reputation:
111
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 25, 2011 at 10:33 pm
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say deserve, but you do kind of ask for it, given that you know the bullet is the end result. Now, as an analogy, I agree with it. As for the god thing . . . Well, if god is real, he is not making his presence as known as this hypothetical homicidal thief. Therefore, the decision to sin or not to sin is not as cut and dry. I mean, he employs an ancient book and a troupe of weirdos peppered with nice guys to convey the bullet or wallet option. We do not see the bullet or the thief. We only see the wallet. Of course we are going to choose the wallet. Why would we let an invisible man steal our wallets, especially when the bullet is not immediate, thus proving the thief is real? We have to wait until the end of our lives to see if the thief and his threats were real, so we choose the wallet every day or as often as possible because the wallets and sins are more tempting than the bullets and hell are scary. My wallet is not tempting at all with a tangible gun to my head.
Posts: 67034
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 25, 2011 at 10:33 pm
Replace "A man", with "God", and "A gun" with "hell".
Now what?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 12806
Threads: 158
Joined: February 13, 2010
Reputation:
111
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 25, 2011 at 10:38 pm
I already answered that, skippy. Look up. Well, upward. I didn't write it on your ceiling.
Posts: 67034
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 25, 2011 at 10:40 pm
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2011 at 10:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You've written your own beliefs into that Shell. Hell isn't a possibility, nebulous and unproven to Ryft. Its a reality, something beyond question, even if all you define hell as is punishment by god and not the lake of fire. God HAS made his presence known, even you know him. He's not an invisible man making potentially empty threats. Gods hell and the theif's gun are equally as real and dangerous.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 12806
Threads: 158
Joined: February 13, 2010
Reputation:
111
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 25, 2011 at 10:44 pm
I know Ryft believes this. The thing is, there is no telling if god is actually giving us free will because he is the invisible thief, not the tangible one. Ryft may believe it, but that isn't enough to get me to give up my wallet (in this case, sex, rock 'n' roll and all manner of covetousness and lusting).
Posts: 5097
Threads: 207
Joined: February 16, 2011
Reputation:
44
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 25, 2011 at 10:59 pm
(October 25, 2011 at 10:44 pm)Shell B Wrote: but that isn't enough to get me to give up my wallet (in this case, sex, rock 'n' roll and all manner of covetousness and lusting).
Glad to see you have your priorities in order.
Posts: 67034
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 25, 2011 at 11:05 pm
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2011 at 11:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
So, whats the deal? Hell or the bullet, you get to exercise your free will because you clearly have a choice (  ) and you deserve what you chose right?
Or maybe you don't get to excersise free will, because it's an illusion. How then do you deserve what you didn't choose?
If you aren't making choices at all whats the point of any of it? If you are making choices but can only make the incorrect choices, what's the point of any of it? Who decided all of this in the first place? Why is he not implicated? If the first place you'll ever go to that only allows for the correct choice is the reward then why the test in a place where you could only fail? What kind of a reward is half a choice anyway? Why create a creature capable of choices at all if you're going to limit them at every turn? Is heaven really paradise or a gilded cage? Importantly, is there anything at all to flesh any of this out or are believers blowing enough smoke up my ass to floor Tommy Chong?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 5097
Threads: 207
Joined: February 16, 2011
Reputation:
44
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 25, 2011 at 11:15 pm
Im with rythm, a forced choice is not a choice at all, especially one with such hig prices to pay (ones life, eternal torture, etc..)
In this situation the illusion of freewill is given merely to fuck with the person. The thief obviously has rigged the game "either chose to give me your wallet or chose for me to shoot you" when in reality the thief has already chosen that he will get your wallet, wether live or dead.
|
