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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 12:23 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2020 at 12:23 am by brokenreflector.)
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 12:25 am
(May 31, 2020 at 12:12 am)brokenreflector Wrote: Oof. Looks like I've wasted my time here. I thought there would be a better defense of atheism.
Well, that was easy.
Wait? What?
Defending Atheism? I thought this thread was about your claims, not ours?
Cheers.
Not at work.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 12:28 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2020 at 12:29 am by The Architect Of Fate.)
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
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“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 12:30 am
So, this bozo waltzes in, spews some nonsense as truth, then has the brazenness to chastise what is claimed as fact.
Another asshat.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 12:34 am
(May 30, 2020 at 11:40 pm)brokenreflector Wrote: Ask yourself this question: What are the plausible explanations for the origin of all things?
Why don't you ask yourself this question: what was before God? Who created God?
(May 30, 2020 at 11:40 pm)brokenreflector Wrote: There are many flavors of atheism
Yeah, there are atheists like you who is an atheist when it comes to Allah, Zeus, Krishna and all other 20 million gods, but believes in Jesus. I am just one god more on the list of unbelieving in gods.
(May 30, 2020 at 11:40 pm)brokenreflector Wrote: But the idea that the universe is eternal is logically incoherent and not to mention against what contemporary scientific evidence suggests.
Then why didn't this contemporary scientist working in Fermilab mention God even once when talking about What happened before the Big Bang?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 12:49 am
Quote:Peebo-Thuhlu
My reply would be "I do not know."
You do not know of the plausible and general explanations for the origins of reality? You have never thought of what it could be? Is this because of a lack of curiosity or imagination? Surely, you've read some philosophy or cosmology?
Quote:So... this is an assertion.
Yes. I strongly believe and state that not anything cannot produce something, just like I strongly believe and state that 2 + 2 = 4 or that there are no married bachelors. To say not anything can produce something is logically incoherent and for you to entertain the idea simply because you want to avoid God is sad.
Quote:As far as my limited understanind of cosmology is those who study such things are actually saying that "We can 'See' to a certain point in time and space. Anything before that is still 'Guess work' and being intensly scrutinized." At no point to they actually say 'Nothing'.
If not anything did not produce something, then you need to go to the second explanation that I outlined in my original post.
Quote:This is an interesting idea... what is it based upon, however? Just your 'Instinct' and.or 'feelings'?
No, it's based on what the definition of eternal means.
Quote:Ther might be more than just those two, perhaps?
There isn't. But I'm all ears. Can you think of another explanation?
Quote:There is also the actual fact that we actually have evidece (A functional hypothesis) within our reality of litterally something (Matter in the form of particles) comming into existance where previously no particles existed before.
A quantum vacuum isn't not anything. If you believe the quantum vacuum is past-eternal, then refer to the issues I brought up in the second explanation.
Quote:We also have actual, direct evidence of 'Things' happening with no preceeding cause for their effect.
Oh, so you don't believe in the law of cause and effect? There exists effects that are uncaused? Or are you saying there's a backwards causality? If you believe the former, then it will be impossible for science to completely describe the natural world. You're essentially saying you believe in bubbles of magic that science will never be able to explain. Maybe God is in one of these magical bubbles? As for the latter, there's still a cause and an effect, so don't see an issue.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 12:54 am
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 12:57 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2020 at 1:00 am by brokenreflector.)
(May 31, 2020 at 12:34 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Why don't you ask yourself this question: what was before God? Who created God?
Why would the question be asked if God is by definition a being that cannot fail to exist (i.e. necessary, eternal)?
If God were by definition a contingent being or past-finite being, then the question would make sense.
Quote:Yeah, there are atheists like you who is an atheist when it comes to Allah, Zeus, Krishna and all other 20 million gods, but believes in Jesus. I am just one god more on the list of unbelieving in gods.
I don't see how this is worth mentioning. You can call me an atheist if you want. It might make things confusing to readers though. What about the arguments in my original post?
Quote:Then why didn't this contemporary scientist working in Fermilab mention God even once when talking about What happened before the Big Bang?
Because he's doing science and science is a methodology for observing, recording, predicting, and describing natural phenomena. God isn't a natural phenomena. Even if God truly existed and even if this scientist believed in God, it wouldn't make sense for him to mention God in a purely scientific context.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 12:59 am
(May 31, 2020 at 12:49 am)brokenreflector Wrote: Quote:Peebo-Thuhlu
My reply would be "I do not know."
You do not know of the plausible and general explanations for the origins of reality? You have never thought of what it could be? Is this because of a lack of curiosity or imagination? Surely, you've read some philosophy or cosmology?
Quote:So... this is an assertion.
Yes. I strongly believe and state that not anything cannot produce something, just like I strongly believe and state that 2 + 2 = 4 or that there are no married bachelors. To say not anything can produce something is logically incoherent and for you to entertain the idea simply because you want to avoid God is sad.
Quote:As far as my limited understanind of cosmology is those who study such things are actually saying that "We can 'See' to a certain point in time and space. Anything before that is still 'Guess work' and being intensly scrutinized." At no point to they actually say 'Nothing'.
If not anything did not produce something, then you need to go to the second explanation that I outlined in my original post.
Quote:This is an interesting idea... what is it based upon, however? Just your 'Instinct' and.or 'feelings'?
No, it's based on what the definition of eternal means.
Quote:Ther might be more than just those two, perhaps?
There isn't. But I'm all ears. Can you think of another explanation?
Quote:There is also the actual fact that we actually have evidece (A functional hypothesis) within our reality of litterally something (Matter in the form of particles) comming into existance where previously no particles existed before.
A quantum vacuum isn't not anything. If you believe the quantum vacuum is past-eternal, then refer to the issues I brought up in the second explanation.
Quote:We also have actual, direct evidence of 'Things' happening with no preceeding cause for their effect.
Oh, so you don't believe in the law of cause and effect? There exists effects that are uncaused? Or are you saying there's a backwards causality? If you believe the former, then it will be impossible for science to completely describe the natural world. You're essentially saying you believe in bubbles of magic that science will never be able to explain. Maybe God is in one of these magical bubbles? As for the latter, there's still a cause and an effect, so don't see an issue.
Oooo... so much to unpack.
Oh, I can dream about unicorns and rainbows all day as the 'Reason' everythig exists. However, my honesty dictates I admit to my level of ignorance. 
It's great that you 'Believe' that 'Nothing' can not produce 'Something'. So.. realty doesn't actually care what people think. Reality is constantly being shown to be stranger than we generally imagine.
It is you who is positing 'Nothing' Astronomers, Cosmologists, Physicists etc are not actually positing 'Nothing' as a 'before' everything.
Krauss is simply trying to educate the regualr Joe as to how the current science stands.
Nope. You are positing that there are only 'Two' options. I am disagreeig with your limitiations.
As for the quantum vacume? I was using it as an explanatnion/example of how even within our reality things do NOT work the way our reason would seem to indicate. It's not that I don't believe in something..... I'm just showing you example of reality being weireder than our 'Rationality' espouses.
Cheers.
Not at work.
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RE: God Exists
May 31, 2020 at 1:12 am
(This post was last modified: May 31, 2020 at 1:15 am by brokenreflector.)
(May 31, 2020 at 12:59 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Oh, I can dream about unicorns and rainbows all day as the 'Reason' everythig exists.
That doesn't surprise me. On the other hand, I've reasoned that unicorns do not exist and that rainbows do.
Quote:It's great that you 'Believe' that 'Nothing' can not produce 'Something'.
I'm 99% sure that you believe that it's impossible for not anything to produce something as well, but you wouldn't admit it.
Quote:So.. realty doesn't actually care what people think.
Interestingly, "reality" is a complete list of all that exists which would exclude "not anything."
Quote:Astronomers, Cosmologists, Physicists etc are not actually positing 'Nothing' as a 'before' everything.
Actually, Dr. Krauss frequently claims the universe came from nothing, but that's because he's dishonest. When pressed on this issue he describes "nothing" as a quantum field. But a quantum field is something.
Quote:Nope. You are positing that there are only 'Two' options. I am disagreeig with your limitiations.
Yes, there's only two options just like X can only exist or not exist. Will you now argue with me that there's a third option for the ontology of X?
(May 31, 2020 at 12:28 am)SUNGULA Wrote: (May 31, 2020 at 12:23 am)brokenreflector Wrote: Claiming I'm an old member of this forum.
Another good argument. 
Stating a fact is just that but you're stating a claim is fact and that's that. Nope i'm stating a fact not a claim and you ciould be an old member of the forum as you repeat the exact same argument as countless before you
Any way already bored of you
Bye bye I was bored with you before you were born.
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