Rome, like The West™ has no particular factual or historic meaning to Winter. They're stand-ins for satan. That's why he believes that an actual discussion of rome is off topic, because he's not talking about rome when he uses the term.

We think we're having a historical discussion, he's trying to tell us about dryads in trees.

The same is true of his many magic book threads. The culture and history (and dare we say..science...) that lead magic book to adopt such a stance is lost on him, as the then-progressiveness of islam is lost on him...because he can't bring himself to accept the fact that the book has a history that didn't begin with a ghost in a cave. This is the tragedy of islam. It made the empire, then broke it. There was nothing more radical about islam than it's assumption of natural philosophy. Magic book told it's followers that none of the ridiculous shit other religions were selling was true. That god did things and made things pretty much as we see them. That there were no god-men. A demystification of the cosmos in relation to previous beliefs.

(July 3, 2020 at 6:18 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: This is so clearly the case that it boggles me that Winter rejects it (though it shouldn’t).

His reasons are simple (yet stupid, again) and he clearly stated them in some previous threads/posts:

#1 The Muslims defeated the "Roman empire"
In order to "make this claim come true", he has to define the Eastern Roman Empire aka Byzantium as the Roman Empire, period. Otherwise the achievements of the early muslims would be dimished.
His view, not mine.

#2 Ottomans as successors or Rome, thereby
He worships the Ottomans* (amongst others, like the Mamluks) and clearly stated that he views the Ottoman empire as a succesion of the Roman empire, again, looking for historical/political legitimisation. This only works is the Byzantine Empire was the Roman empire.


Like usual: He has his (stupid) conclusions, and works backwards from there.


*by the way, in reference to the torture and cruelty insanity of a thread Atlass also created lately: It was the Ottomans who made it custom that future Sultans had to kill all their (even infant!) brothers and other male family members, in order to gain political legitimacy and power. They never bothered with clear rules of succession. The results can be seen all over modern Istanbul, namely those small, cute coffins of all the murdered young brothers of Sultans.  
Oh, and since spilling blood was so barbaric and unworthy of such high ranking nobles, they were usually, just like Viziers fallen from grace, strangeled with silk ties (which was coincidentally a similar practice of the Mongols who Atlass, in his distorted black-and-white-view of the world hates so much and despises as barbarians the oh-so-civilized Muslims defeated to save the world    ).

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(July 3, 2020 at 6:27 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Rome, like The West™ has no particular factual or historic meaning to Winter.  They're stand-ins for satan.

I wouldnt go that far, for Rome for example. I dont recall him trash talking Rome. But he views those entities as mere pawns, acessories in the wider context of the rise and rule of Islam, which is his primary (and probably only) focus. Thats why its irrelevant to him if his definition and other *pesky details* about his views on Rome, Byzanium or "The West" are factually wrong. Its irrelevant, because the relevant parts is: Islam.

Completely self centered, intellectually uncurious and dishonest.

(July 3, 2020 at 6:27 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It made the empire, then broke it.

Pretty quickly, yes. Islam split faster than many other religions, into Sunni and Shia. A mere 50y after the death of The Prophet the first schism has happened and the first Caliphate (Rashidun) was gone.

(July 3, 2020 at 6:27 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:  There was nothing more radical about islam than it's assumption of natural philosophy.  Magic book told it's followers that none of the ridiculous shit other religions were selling was true.  That god did things and made things pretty much as we see them.  That there were no god-men.  A demystification of the cosmos in relation to previous beliefs.

Agreed, it paved the way to many scientific observations and discoveries, yet also was the root cause of many an evil.

Look dear reader how bots under the authority of the mod BrianSoddingBoru4 changed the topic to discuss Rome, even though the op is about " [Quranic Reflection]:The universe is expanding"

(July 3, 2020 at 8:53 am)WinterHold Wrote: Look dear reader how bots under the authority of the mod BrianSoddingBoru4 changed the topic to discuss Rome, even though the op is about " [Quranic Reflection]:The universe is expanding"

Yeah, my scary authority. All of the other members are lowly minions who do my bidding. 

YOU’RE the one who brought up Rome in the first place. And got it wrong.

Boru

(July 3, 2020 at 8:53 am)WinterHold Wrote: Look dear reader how bots under the authority of the mod BrianSoddingBoru4 changed the topic to discuss Rome, even though the op is about " [Quranic Reflection]:The universe is expanding"

This is the link to the bot who brought Rome to the table and tried to oversimplify/misrepresent the Byzantine Empire as the equivalent to the Roman Empire.

And this is what you the bot posted:

(July 2, 2020 at 3:47 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Roman emperor Constantine I
Names of Constantinople
Byzantium took on the name of Kōnstantinoupolis ("city of Constantine", Constantinople) after its refoundation under Roman emperor Constantine I, who transferred the capital of the Roman Empire to Byzantium in 330 and designated his new capital officially as Nova Roma (Νέα Ῥώμη) 'New Rome'.

As per usual you are trying to blame others for you derailing your own threads (because of your utter ignorance).
And fuck you for trying to bully people around, incuding mods.

(July 3, 2020 at 8:53 am)WinterHold Wrote: Look dear reader how bots under the authority of the mod BrianSoddingBoru4 changed the topic to discuss Rome, even though the op is about " [Quranic Reflection]:The universe is expanding"

No.

Look, dear reader, how the rest of chat is trying to correct Winterhold's poor understanding of history in a thread where the OP can't even be descent enough to answer direct questions relating to the actual OP.



Not at work.

(July 3, 2020 at 12:36 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote:

(July 3, 2020 at 8:53 am)WinterHold Wrote: Look dear reader how bots under the authority of the mod BrianSoddingBoru4 changed the topic to discuss Rome, even though the op is about " [Quranic Reflection]:The universe is expanding"

No.

Look, dear reader, how the rest of chat is trying to correct Winterhold's poor understanding of history in a thread where the OP can't even be descent enough to answer direct questions relating to the actual OP.



Not at work.

Maybe Allah is ‘expanding’ the topic.

Boru

(July 3, 2020 at 12:49 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 3, 2020 at 12:36 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: No.

Look, dear reader, how the rest of chat is trying to correct Winterhold's poor understanding of history in a thread where the OP can't even be descent enough to answer direct questions relating to the actual OP.



Not at work.

Maybe Allah is ‘expanding’ the topic.

Boru

Looks like the uni... topic was able to *expand* completely without divine intervention.