Quote:I'm curious why you think God is a thing that does this sort of stuff. 

God is whatever the thinker imagines he is so Xaventis idea no less valid then of the imaginary friends theists invent

Quote:I don't know what the Christians in your family think, but serious thinkers have never described God in the way you're imagining. Maybe you're thinking of Superman, instead?

"serious" thinkers (people making shit up ) have no better a grasp then Xaventis

Quote:If you were to read the descriptions of God by, for example, Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Descartes, Hobbes, Newton, Spinoza, Tillich, etc. etc. etc., you would see that the image you've dreamed up has nothing to do with how smart people believe in God.

Yup smart people dreaming shit up no better then what Xaventis describes . Sorry to inform you but smart people can BS too

Quote:What you've done is set up an easy proof based on a false image.

You can't create a false image of the imagined 

Quote: It's like a Creationist who says he'd happily believe in the theory of evolution as soon as he sees a monkey give birth to a human.

The difference being evolution is scientific theory .While thoelogy is a heap of mental masterbation

Quote: He can be confident he'll never see proof, because he's thinking of something that the theory doesn't really say.

No theist has any right to anyone else what counts as proof when they can't even decide on the matter themselves .

Again your tiresome apologetics and attempts to sound smart by name dropping dead people fails you

(August 8, 2020 at 2:43 pm)Belacqua Wrote: I'm curious why you think God is a thing that does this sort of stuff.

Assumptions this christian makes:
1) god can not interact with the real world (!!!!!!) [HARDCORE!]
2) god can not talk to humans (!!!!!!!!!!!!) [Beyond HARDCORE = bible impossible to create] {is disprove by the bible}
and possibly
3) god has no capacity to think or function and is more a force then a mind/entity [EXTRA HARDCORE; bible disproving]

Is this your argument?
Like

(August 8, 2020 at 2:53 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: While thoelogy is a heap of mental masterbation

Pointed out the theology you present is trying to emulate brain damage with sophistries and thinking stomping arguments.

(August 8, 2020 at 2:53 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: While thoelogy is a heap of mental masterbation

Your response is humorous  and great, however I disagree on one point, I don't like you insulting masturbation by comparing it to theology. I prefer the word "brain damage emulation"

(August 8, 2020 at 2:43 pm)Belacqua Wrote: I'm curious why you think God is a thing that does this sort of stuff.

I did talk about this before however you are behaving very christian, meaning you simply try to change the subject and turn it on its head.
You tell me what would disprove your religion for you.
Regardless what smarty pence theology you have tell me what the way to disprove it is.

I can tell you how you can prove to me that electricity is fake or that gravity is not real.
How can anyone prove to you your religion is false? Its fruitful to be on the same page so in interest of mutual understanding tell me what it is for you and all the smart dead men you love to quote.

PS: <commentary>
This question is totally devastating for all religionists, catch them every time they try to change the subject and don't let them go of this point, your own atheist imaginings of god are irrelevant they are to tell you what would disprove their religion/god for them. They can feel free to inject what this is if their religion/god is extra esoteric ("we all are god"; "there is only 1 soul in existence and we all have it")

I was discussing with Christians the silence of Paul and other evidence that pre-Gospel Christians didn't know about Jesus of Nazareth.  They knew him as a spirit who appeared and revealed himself.  Many said that, if there was no Jesus of Nazareth, they would no longer believe in Christianity. 

That surprised me.  I told them they already disregard the historicity of much of the Bible.  Their beliefs draw on faith, not fact.  As smart dead guy Twain said, Faith is believing what you know ain't so.  Besides, for many Christians, religion is a club, a social event, a lifestyle, not something they view analytically.  Why let anything stop that?   Do what makes you happy.

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: I was discussing with Christians the silence of Paul and other evidence that pre-Gospel Christians didn't know about Jesus of Nazareth.  They knew him as a spirit who appeared and revealed himself.  Many said that, if there was no Jesus of Nazareth, they would no longer believe in Christianity. 

Reasonable, I never argue that jesus never existed, the NT and jesus are to fake to be made up, what we read in 99% of the NT is the accurate story of a 1 century charlatan named jesus who performed simple tricks to fool stupid people (some miracles are to stupid to accept even for Christians.) behaved like a lunatic and possibly was bipolar and/or did have schizophrenia  (why did jesus attack the fig tree?). Then Jesus assaults some people and the Romans kill him with the rest of the guilty criminals like thieves (read your bible). 

After some time the rest of his inner circle decided to restart the same scam and tell lies that jesus resurrected and showed himself to them, conveniently only in their cult leader house, that only they the cult leaders can be in.

The remaining 1% are simple lies. Jesus behaves nothing like you expect from anyone even on he level of gods prophet. For example moses divided the see, jesus never did that.
Moses > jesus.

---

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: That surprised me.  I told them they already disregard the historicity of much of the Bible. 

Without the resurrection of jesus their religion makes no sense, throw that one out and its game over. The rest is fluff you can throw away.

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: Do what makes you happy.

This is a dangerous hippy mindset that I can not subscribe to.

(August 8, 2020 at 3:51 pm)Xaventis Wrote:

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: I was discussing with Christians the silence of Paul and other evidence that pre-Gospel Christians didn't know about Jesus of Nazareth.  They knew him as a spirit who appeared and revealed himself.  Many said that, if there was no Jesus of Nazareth, they would no longer believe in Christianity. 

Reasonable, I never argue that jesus never existed, the NT and jesus are to fake to be made up, what we read in 99% of the NT is the accurate story of a 1 century charlatan named jesus who performed simple tricks to fool stupid people (some miracles are to stupid to accept even for Christians.) behaved like a lunatic and possibly was bipolar and/or did have schizophrenia  (why did jesus attack the fig tree?). Then Jesus assaults some people and the Romans kill him with the rest of the guilty criminals like thieves (read your bible). 

After some time the rest of his inner circle decided to restart the same scam and tell lies that jesus resurrected and showed himself to them, conveniently only in their cult leader house, that only they the cult leaders can be in.

The remaining 1% are simple lies. Jesus behaves nothing like you expect from anyone even on he level of gods prophet. For example moses divided the see, jesus never did that.
Moses > jesus.

---

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: That surprised me.  I told them they already disregard the historicity of much of the Bible. 

Without the resurrection of jesus their religion makes no sense, throw that one out and its game over. The rest is fluff you can throw away.

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: Do what makes you happy.

This is a dangerous hippy mindset that I can not subscribe to.

 
It sounds like you need to reword your opening query.

Boru

(August 8, 2020 at 3:51 pm)Xaventis Wrote:

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: I was discussing with Christians the silence of Paul and other evidence that pre-Gospel Christians didn't know about Jesus of Nazareth.  They knew him as a spirit who appeared and revealed himself.  Many said that, if there was no Jesus of Nazareth, they would no longer believe in Christianity. 

Reasonable, I never argue that jesus never existed, the NT and jesus are to fake to be made up, what we read in 99% of the NT is the accurate story of a 1 century charlatan named jesus who performed simple tricks to fool stupid people (some miracles are to stupid to accept even for Christians.) behaved like a lunatic and possibly was bipolar and/or did have schizophrenia  (why did jesus attack the fig tree?). Then Jesus assaults some people and the Romans kill him with the rest of the guilty criminals like thieves (read your bible). 

After some time the rest of his inner circle decided to restart the same scam and tell lies that jesus resurrected and showed himself to them, conveniently only in their cult leader house, that only they the cult leaders can be in.

The remaining 1% are simple lies. Jesus behaves nothing like you expect from anyone even on he level of gods prophet. For example moses divided the see, jesus never did that.
Moses > jesus.

---

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: That surprised me.  I told them they already disregard the historicity of much of the Bible. 

Without the resurrection of jesus their religion makes no sense, throw that one out and its game over. The rest is fluff you can throw away.

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: Do what makes you happy.

This is a dangerous hippy mindset that I can not subscribe to.

 
There is no reason to be so sure the Gospel is based on an actual person.  You should read up on it and not be so sure of your assumptions.  

It appears you want to decide for others what they should do and how they should think on matters that don't affect you.  To me, that is as silly as taking quotes out of context or suggesting the character who defeated death and ascended to heaven to sit at god's right hand is less than Moses.

(August 8, 2020 at 3:15 pm)Xaventis Wrote:

(August 8, 2020 at 2:43 pm)Belacqua Wrote: I'm curious why you think God is a thing that does this sort of stuff.

Assumptions this christian makes:

I'm not a Christian.

Quote:1) god can not interact with the real world (!!!!!!) [HARDCORE!]
2) god can not talk to humans (!!!!!!!!!!!!) [Beyond HARDCORE = bible impossible to create] {is disprove by the bible}
and possibly
3) god has no capacity to think or function and is more a force then a mind/entity [EXTRA HARDCORE; bible disproving]

Is this your argument? 

No, this is not my argument.

Earlier you said you were interested in debate, but if you're not going to address the real claims made by intelligent Christians then you're not debating seriously. Lots of exclamation points don't help.

Quote:No, this is not my argument.

Well considering you worded it so poorly don't blame him 

Quote:Earlier you said you were interested in debate,

A task you are ill equipped for 

Quote: but if you're not going to address the real claims made by intelligent Christians then you're not debating seriously. 

Addressing made up bullshit is like addressing nothing at all . Simply saying "but smart people believed it " makes no less so  

Quote:Lots of exclamation points don't help.

Neither does any of your posturing

(August 8, 2020 at 3:51 pm)Xaventis Wrote:

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: I was discussing with Christians the silence of Paul and other evidence that pre-Gospel Christians didn't know about Jesus of Nazareth.  They knew him as a spirit who appeared and revealed himself.  Many said that, if there was no Jesus of Nazareth, they would no longer believe in Christianity. 

Reasonable, I never argue that jesus never existed, the NT and jesus are to fake to be made up, what we read in 99% of the NT is the accurate story of a 1 century charlatan named jesus who performed simple tricks to fool stupid people (some miracles are to stupid to accept even for Christians.) behaved like a lunatic and possibly was bipolar and/or did have schizophrenia  (why did jesus attack the fig tree?). Then Jesus assaults some people and the Romans kill him with the rest of the guilty criminals like thieves (read your bible). 

After some time the rest of his inner circle decided to restart the same scam and tell lies that jesus resurrected and showed himself to them, conveniently only in their cult leader house, that only they the cult leaders can be in.

The remaining 1% are simple lies. Jesus behaves nothing like you expect from anyone even on he level of gods prophet. For example moses divided the see, jesus never did that.
Moses > jesus.

---

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: That surprised me.  I told them they already disregard the historicity of much of the Bible. 

Without the resurrection of jesus their religion makes no sense, throw that one out and its game over. The rest is fluff you can throw away.

(August 8, 2020 at 3:37 pm)Ranjr Wrote: Do what makes you happy.

This is a dangerous hippy mindset that I can not subscribe to.

 

(August 8, 2020 at 6:00 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(August 8, 2020 at 3:51 pm)Xaventis Wrote: Reasonable, I never argue that jesus never existed, the NT and jesus are to fake to be made up, what we read in 99% of the NT is the accurate story of a 1 century charlatan named jesus who performed simple tricks to fool stupid people (some miracles are to stupid to accept even for Christians.) behaved like a lunatic and possibly was bipolar and/or did have schizophrenia  (why did jesus attack the fig tree?). Then Jesus assaults some people and the Romans kill him with the rest of the guilty criminals like thieves (read your bible). 

After some time the rest of his inner circle decided to restart the same scam and tell lies that jesus resurrected and showed himself to them, conveniently only in their cult leader house, that only they the cult leaders can be in.

The remaining 1% are simple lies. Jesus behaves nothing like you expect from anyone even on he level of gods prophet. For example moses divided the see, jesus never did that.
Moses > jesus.

---

Without the resurrection of jesus their religion makes no sense, throw that one out and its game over. The rest is fluff you can throw away.


This is a dangerous hippy mindset that I can not subscribe to.

 

No.

Boru