His take is up above. A boycott. How he expects french muslims to boycott the government of the country they live in is a mystery. How punishing independent producers who are not the french state could do anything but cause further misery, likewise, unconsidered.

The scene so far.

Islamists blow shit up and kill people.
Governments reject islamism.
Good Muslims insist that economic damage be done to the people who live under governments who reject islamism.

-and repeat

(October 29, 2020 at 6:20 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(October 29, 2020 at 4:33 am)WinterHold Wrote: Macron implicitly suggested that Russia be a member of the NATO:

https://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/81102


You can read it and connect the dots: Macron wants to direct the cannon towards Muslims.
He is on the same path with Trump and Putin.

This guy is anti-Islam. Not "extremist" Islam.

I could read it and note that it's true.  Islamism is a greater threat to france than russian invasion.  All the time you've spent here burying islamism under a rock and distancing Proper Islam from it... and yet, when push comes to shove, you go to bat for islamism.  Unsurprising, but disappointing nevertheless.  The first and most important part of your own radicalization is done.  You're incapable of seeing this as anything other than an islamist - and any rejection of islamism is taken to be an attack on islam.

I totally disagree since the world already saw what the wing of Putin and Trump is capable of and what its real agenda is.

A part of the classic wing that ruled Europe and America since WW2 mutated; and the mutation is the likes of Trump and Putin. You can even see the battle going on in America between the classic wing and this new mutation -Trump vs Biden-.

Looks like Macron joined Trump and Putin.

I didn't waste my time here; maybe you did. The world is changing, please don't join the ranks of the mutated wing.

(October 28, 2020 at 11:28 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I already said in a previous topic that boycotting people who make fun of Islam is a requirement in Islam:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-61580.html

Quote: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?

The verse from the Quran is:

Quote:Sura 4, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 140 )   And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together -

Terrorism and killing are not how a Muslim deals with others making fun of their faith; but simply they boycott their products and ignore them -leave them and go sit elsewhere-. Boycotting is a freedom of expression too; Macron

Huge difference between boycotting, and terrorism.

Muslims in America most certainly have the right to peacefully protest non violently over any issue they want. But in America they DO NOT have the right to murder anyone over blasphemy.

And just like with right wing Christians when they threaten people that God will send them to hell, my argument is the same as it is with you. "Why are you trying to do your god's work for him?" He cant be "all powerful" if he needs the help of mortal humans. Are you arguing he cant do work by himself?

(October 29, 2020 at 8:13 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote:

(October 28, 2020 at 11:28 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I already said in a previous topic that boycotting people who make fun of Islam is a requirement in Islam:

Okay.

So if some one 'Makes fun of' the belief system ( "How many Islamists does it take to change a light bulb?" )

You are happy to walk away? Cool.  

What if some one is insulting towards your belief system, or calls aspects of its nature into question. ( "How many babies did Allah drown in the global  flood?" )

What is your take on things, then?  

Not at work.  

Yes I'll just walk away and let them insult the faith; God has spoken and gave his command already in Sura 4, verse 140.

As for the "flood"; God is a creator of everything; so don't do "Anthropomorphism" with him or else you'll get everything wrong and you won't understand what he is.

God is not "human", he is not a "humanoid". You can't get angry with "the sun" for giving a child "a sun burn"; you can't get angry with "water" for drowning an infant. You just accept it, because no matter what you do these forces exist before you, they are stronger than you, they are your universe itself.

Allah is the creator of these forces. If the sun and water are so strong; what about their creator?

He described himself in the Quran here:

Quote:Sura 6, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 102 )   That is Allah, your Lord; there is no deity except Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He is Disposer of all things.
( 103 )   Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted.

---

(October 29, 2020 at 10:00 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: His take is up above.  A boycott.  How he expects french muslims to boycott the government of the country they live in is a mystery.  How punishing independent producers who are not the french state could do anything but cause further misery, likewise, unconsidered.

The scene so far.

Islamists blow shit up and kill people.
Governments reject islamism.
Good Muslims insist that economic damage be done to the people who live under governments who reject islamism.  

-and repeat

The problem is that France is something; while Macron is something else.
Did you see the amount of French people who have positive views of Muslims??

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/...ty-groups/

Quote:Solid majorities of people in the United Kingdom, France, the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden have positive opinions of Muslims in their country. And attitudes toward Bulgarian Muslims, who constitute around 12% to 14% of the country’s population, are also favorable. (In Bulgaria, the question specifically asked about “Bulgarian Muslims.”)

I understand your point though: you are saying that " Islamic extremism" is the problem; I agree but it's not the bigger problem, there are far worse problems and maybe the first is new wing forming that includes Rightists and populous extremism.

The boycotting is for Muslims who are capable to do it -like non-French Muslims-, but any Muslim going stabbing and blowing and killing just went against their own Quran and their own religion, they should be treated as any criminal.

I never patted Islamist extremists.

---

(October 29, 2020 at 2:47 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(October 28, 2020 at 11:28 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I already said in a previous topic that boycotting people who make fun of Islam is a requirement in Islam:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-61580.html

The verse from the Quran is:


Terrorism and killing are not how a Muslim deals with others making fun of their faith; but simply they boycott their products and ignore them -leave them and go sit elsewhere-. Boycotting is a freedom of expression too; Macron

Huge difference between boycotting, and terrorism.

Muslims in America most certainly have the right to peacefully protest non violently over any issue they want. But in America they DO NOT have the right to murder anyone over blasphemy.

And just like with right wing Christians when they threaten people that God will send them to hell, my argument is the same as it is with you. "Why are you trying to do your god's work for him?" He cant be "all powerful" if he needs the help of mortal humans. Are you arguing he cant do work by himself?

He is powerful, but it's all about us Muslims.
If we didn't boycott those who insult us, they will escalate their insults to turn it into physical harm, then it will turn into direct oppression.

Remember what I always advocated in here: Islam saying it is an "eye for an eye".
The cartoons don't kill. So Muslims also should not kill.

Which tells you a lot about the crazies that carry knives and assault people in the streets: they are lost terrorists that need to be punished.

And the cartoonists? well we'll boycott these childish provoking attempts. Our religion says that.
Macron defended their childish act? we'll boycott his ass too.

(October 29, 2020 at 3:10 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Yes I'll just walk away and let them insult the faith; ...

[...]

Well, excuse me if I don't believe you.

Do you know what "boycott" means?

(October 29, 2020 at 5:11 pm)Sal Wrote:

(October 29, 2020 at 3:10 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Yes I'll just walk away and let them insult the faith; ...

[...]

Well, excuse me if I don't believe you.

Do you know what "boycott" means?

That's up to you.
I believe in Allah who said:

Quote:Sura 4, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 140 )   And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together -

My OP about this predated the events:


https://atheistforums.org/thread-61580.html

Quote: Wrote: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?

Date of topic: September 4, 2020 at 4:52 am

The Quran predates this event with 1400 years.

(October 29, 2020 at 5:55 pm)WinterHold Wrote: That's up to you.
I believe in Allah who said:

Quote:Sura 4, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 140 )   And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together -

So your claim is that allah is a total dick? I agree.

(October 29, 2020 at 5:55 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(October 29, 2020 at 5:11 pm)Sal Wrote: Well, excuse me if I don't believe you.

Do you know what "boycott" means?

That's up to you.
I believe in Allah who said:

Quote:Sura 4, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 140 )   And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together -

My OP about this predated the events:


https://atheistforums.org/thread-61580.html

Quote: Wrote: [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of?

Date of topic: September 4, 2020 at 4:52 am

The Quran predates this event with 1400 years.

... and you don't see how your continued nagging about this, in your own words might be a problem?

You see, I think your islamwash is reprehensible, especially, since your "moderate" views of your pigshit religion is so disgusting, along with its inexcusable murder and subjugation of millions of people. Go die in a ditch, MS-ridden asshole*. I'd rather burn in your religions version of Hell, than ever submit to it.

---

*yes, I went there. Who knows, maybe it's a punishment from your Allah for being such a fucking asshole. Put that into your hookah and smoke it. But even though we don't explicitly know what causes MS, it probably has a lot to do with all the sanctioned incest in the Middle East, under the nice-sounding euphemism "consanguinity". Anyways, boycott away.

So you aren't supposed to hang around people 'cause your holy book says so, yet here you are and here you seem to stay.

You either believe this shit or you don't. Pick a side.

(October 29, 2020 at 7:05 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: So you aren't supposed to hang around people 'cause your holy book says so, yet here you are and here you seem to stay.

You either believe this shit or you don't.  Pick a side.

I wrote a specific topic about why I'm here in 2018:

May 6, 2018 at 6:04 pm
https://atheistforums.org/thread-54806.html

Quote:WinterHold (AtlasS at that time) said:

I'm here to change what outsiders think about the Middle East. I'm here to throw my hand against the dictators of my regions, and the religious institutions of the Middle East, and show people what the Quran really said.

I don't "hang out around people who make fun of my religion"; Atheistforums.org provide solid grounds for me to stay away from people making fun of my faith.