(December 17, 2020 at 11:54 pm)Spongebob Wrote: My question to OLB is this, what if everyone got tired of the low pay and crappy conditions and got better educated and got better jobs, so there was no one to flip a burger for you?  Economic laws would predict that burger prices would sky rocket because there would be no one to flip them, and that would likely lead to the end of the fast food industry, just to mention a miniscule fraction of such markets.

And we could all ride unicorns to work - thus solving the greenhouse gases problem.

But somehow I don"t find either likely.


People tend to be stupid and lazy.

Stupid is forgivable - if the dumb bastard is trying hard.

Lazy isn't bad - if you're brilliant - lazy people innovate and find the best, easiest.way to do things.

But sadly - there are TONS of stupid and lazy pricks out there. You are not going to run out of bottom of the payscale contenders anytime soon.

There are a lot of arguments against increasing the minimum wage. Higher unemployment rates and poverty. Fewer of the other benefits like health insurance associated with employment. Increased outsourcing to other countries. Less jobs available for the young and unskilled. Those are valid arguments that should be considered when talking about increasing the minimum wage. It isn't fair to your wife isn't.

Meanwhile in Australia and elsewhere, we're doing quite well with minimum wage enforced. But please go on clinging to that deluded American bullshit fantasy that there's something wrong with proper minimum wage enforced and keep clinging to your toy guns as well while you're at it.

(December 18, 2020 at 8:49 am)Grandizer Wrote: Meanwhile in Australia and elsewhere, we're doing quite well with minimum wage enforced. But please go on clinging to that deluded American bullshit fantasy that there's something wrong with proper minimum wage enforced and keep clinging to your toy guns as well while you're at it.

No shit. Having been to Brisbane and other parts twice, I can tell you Australians are on average more happy and stable. Both times I visited downtown Brisbane, I felt very safe, and I only remember hearing a police siren once. 

I agree. America is going about stability the wrong way. You cant expect workers to take less and less, keep them sick and desperate just to pad the profits of corporations, and not expect social instability. 

It actually would cost lest long term to do the right thing and pay livable wages and have affordable health care. 

It is weird though. The host I stayed with both times was for gun safety, although pro gun, pro choice, pro gay marriage, but she and her husband were both huge Trump supporters. BUT, just like we have our white anxiety here, she thinks Aboriginals are lazy and should not get the government support they do. Just like many white people here think blacks are mooches. 

The reason I visited them was because their brother was an atheist and a liberal and I met him online back in 02 and we became best friends. Unfortunately Bob had a stroke. I got to visit him the first time before he died. The second time I went I took my friend John, because the three of us were long time friends. 

For the life of me, I simply cannot understand how any sane person can support Trump or austerity economics for that matter. 

No country is perfect, but America's allies do a far better job at caring for their populations than we do. And none of them are dictatorships.

Yeah...

Minimum wage earners are the happiest motherfuckers on the planet....


Stupid basement dwelling twat....

(December 18, 2020 at 11:51 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Yeah...

Minimum wage earners are the happiest motherfuckers on the planet....


Stupid basement dwelling twat....

Want to clarify whom you are addressing? Nobody in this thread who disagrees with you is claiming minimum wage earners are happy. 

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

Australia's lowest earners don't have to worry as much about bills or health care, like America's lowest earners. 

Our point isn't to end the private sector, or suggest that pay differences should not exist. But our baseline here SUCKS.  "Fuck you I got mine" isn't good for anyone but CEOs or shareholders. Australia understands this. And having been there twice, I can tell you, there is no lack of private sector or profits there.

(December 18, 2020 at 12:00 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 18, 2020 at 11:51 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Yeah...

Minimum wage earners are the happiest motherfuckers on the planet....


Stupid basement dwelling twat....

Want to clarify whom you are addressing? Nobody in this thread who disagrees with you is claiming minimum wage earners are happy. 

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

Australia's lowest earners don't have to worry as much about bills or health care, like America's lowest earners. 

Our point isn't to end the private sector, or suggest that pay differences should not exist. But our baseline here SUCKS.  "Fuck you I got mine" isn't good for anyone but CEOs or shareholders. Australia understands this. And having been there twice, I can tell you, there is no lack of private sector or profits there.

You need to actually WORK...

The only thing you ever did is work for minimum wage then live on dead relative's money.

What you know about economics could fit sideways up a gnat's ass.

Ditto what you know about.starting out at the bottom and working your way up. You know nothing.


There's a HUGE chunk of the workforce that started out at basement wages - even below minimum wage - and worked their way up to $15 an hour.

Now you and your ilk want to give every pimple faced booger eater the same wages as those people who worked their way up for YEARS.

That's your idea of fucking fair?

And - what about all the retirees living on fixed incomes?

You think the $15 A MONTH COLA adjustment is going to keep up with the coming inflation?


You really are a clueless idiot.


And YES there will be inflation - if not hyper inflation.

All adjustments to previous minimum wages have been small - so the inflative effect appears minimal. When you DOUBLE minimum?

Jesus.. You have no idea of the ripple effects it's going to cause.

(December 18, 2020 at 12:00 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 18, 2020 at 11:51 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Yeah...

Minimum wage earners are the happiest motherfuckers on the planet....


Stupid basement dwelling twat....

Want to clarify whom you are addressing? Nobody in this thread who disagrees with you is claiming minimum wage earners are happy. 

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

Australia's lowest earners don't have to worry as much about bills or health care, like America's lowest earners. 

Our point isn't to end the private sector, or suggest that pay differences should not exist. But our baseline here SUCKS.  "Fuck you I got mine" isn't good for anyone but CEOs or shareholders. Australia understands this. And having been there twice, I can tell you, there is no lack of private sector or profits there.

Yup, two brief visits to Australia makes you an expert.

Boru

(December 18, 2020 at 7:48 am)onlinebiker Wrote: And we could all ride unicorns to work - thus solving the greenhouse gases problem.

But somehow I don"t find either likely.

People tend to be stupid and lazy.

Stupid is forgivable - if the dumb bastard is trying hard.

Lazy isn't bad - if you're brilliant - lazy people innovate and find the best, easiest.way to do things.

But sadly - there are TONS of stupid and lazy pricks out there. You are not going to run out of bottom of the payscale contenders anytime soon.

So you are saying that anyone who works a physical type of labor job is both lazy and stupid?  I know literally scores of people who defy that description and work very hard for their living.  Some do have college degrees but not the sort that get you six figure salaries.  

1.  What do you base your conclusions on?  Do you have research that shows this to be true? 

2.  Do you have any reasonable idea for how the millions of people who aren't fortunate enough to get the kind of guidance and leadership in youth to inspire them to gain the skills and expertise to create a prosperous life?

I will say that I have worked with both dumb and lazy people with college degrees and/or high paying jobs.  So it's clear that being one or even both of those things is not a prophylactic against poverty.  There are other factors involved with not reaching your potential in terms of prosperity and many are completely out of a person's control.  We are fortunate to live in an era and country where there are many, many factors in our favor and many avenues for success.  But there are still many avenues for failure and some of those have the illusion of success.  I believe that in many cases it's wrong to assume that anyone who isn't successful financially must have some character flaw that is responsible, or that they just like being poor.  It's most certainly intellectually lazy to presume so.

(December 18, 2020 at 1:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 18, 2020 at 12:00 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Want to clarify whom you are addressing? Nobody in this thread who disagrees with you is claiming minimum wage earners are happy. 

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

Australia's lowest earners don't have to worry as much about bills or health care, like America's lowest earners. 

Our point isn't to end the private sector, or suggest that pay differences should not exist. But our baseline here SUCKS.  "Fuck you I got mine" isn't good for anyone but CEOs or shareholders. Australia understands this. And having been there twice, I can tell you, there is no lack of private sector or profits there.

Yup, two brief visits to Australia makes you an expert.

Boru

So are you arguing listening to the people who live there means they don't know anything? Where did I claim I was an expert? 

2 weeks each time FYI. In total, a month.  And also talking with Bob for 15 years, online almost every day. Bob was my best friend, he was born in Australia in 1946. I met him online in 2002, and spoke to him on line almost every day. Until his stroke in 17. 

Bob was an economic liberal, he hated it when Australia's government moved to austerity policies, just like liberals here hate Reagan's failed trickle down economics. Even with some of Australia's moves to austerity, Bob constantly agreed that even with some of those measures their system was still better than ours, and I agree, even his conservative sister agreed. 

Australia has better wages and a better health care system, and I don't remember talking to one person while there who thought America's policies were better.