Quote:Not acceptable crime?


How fucking redundant.


Why not just make it " really, really illegal"?


Look - odds are if some prick is trying to make your insides your outsides - he's probably not real fond of you.....

Again it's bout motivation

(March 19, 2021 at 9:35 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Not acceptable crime?


How fucking redundant.


Why not just make it " really, really illegal"?


Look - odds are if some prick is trying to make your insides your outsides - he's probably not real fond of you.....

The point is that violence against certain classes has been used as a tool of oppression and using violence to hurt not just the victim but also all of their class is worse than personal violence.

(March 19, 2021 at 9:50 pm)Angrbodal Wrote:

(March 19, 2021 at 9:35 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Not acceptable crime?


How fucking redundant.


Why not just make it " really, really illegal"?


Look - odds are if some prick is trying to make your insides your outsides - he's probably not real fond of you.....

The point is that violence against certain classes has been used as a tool of oppression and using violence to hurt not just the victim but also all of their class is worse than personal violence.

Still seems silly to me....

Consider - the motherfucker in question in this case killed 8 people in cold blood. 6 were Asian 2 were not.
So are we going to debate what percentage of his hatred is directed at Asian people?

Who gives a shit? Overall his discrimination against Asians is peanuts compared to the fact that he killed 8 human beings.

He's going to get 8 life sentences. (He should face a firing squad) He's only getting out of prison horizontally.

Fuck this guy. Try him. If found guilty (I suspect he is) lock him in a 6 x 9 foot box and leave him there alone till he quits wasting atmosphere. Forget about the prick and who he likes or doesn't.

He' s not worth scrutiny.

(March 19, 2021 at 7:17 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 19, 2021 at 6:51 pm)jasonelijah Wrote: Do you personally believe the crazed gunman when he says it wasn't a hate crime? Why would he lie?

My guess is this guy had an Asian leaning, and got turned down by an Asian. So it is still a hate crime to me.

I think his business targets say a lot about what he was angry about.

What makes you think he got turned down? His problem was that he didn't get turned down, and hated himself for his addiction because his religion brainwashed him into thinking he was bad for having sex. Maybe he was racist, but that doesn't necessarily mean the crime was motivated by race. Maybe it was. We don't really know. It's fucked up and a tragedy either way though. The things religion does to the mind. Sad.

When it comes to Corona, China definitely should be criticized and held to account for what they did by covering up the truth for as long as they could, punishing whistle blowers, and refusing to allow any investigations by outsiders for a long time. This was extremely reckless and impacted the world greatly. At the same time, the former POTUS should have been more careful with his language because that has had an impact. A lot of people are morons, and racist morons are going to act out in a situation like this.

The black and Asian communities have had a not so great relationship with each other for a long time, and that surely has a lot to do with much of these attacks on Asian-Americans. Many blacks feel like Asians are using blacks to make money while treating them like crap, and won't hire them to work in their stores and instead hire family members, and this virus has just ratcheted up their hate for Asians even more. A lot of these videos you see Asians being knocked out. That's called the knock out game and it's been around for a while. At the same time, blacks are being treated outrageously in China. Reprehensible stuff. It's sad all around.

(March 20, 2021 at 8:23 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(March 19, 2021 at 9:50 pm)Angrbodal Wrote: The point is that violence against certain classes has been used as a tool of oppression and using violence to hurt not just the victim but also all of their class is worse than personal violence.

Still seems silly to me....

Consider - the motherfucker in question in this case killed 8 people in cold blood. 6 were Asian 2 were not.
So are we going to debate what percentage of his hatred is directed at Asian people?

Who gives a shit? Overall his discrimination against Asians is peanuts compared to the fact that he killed 8 human beings.

He's going to get 8 life sentences. (He should face a firing squad) He's only getting out of prison horizontally.

Fuck this guy. Try him. If found guilty (I suspect he is) lock him in a 6 x 9 foot box and leave him there alone till he quits wasting atmosphere. Forget about the prick and who he likes or doesn't.

He' s not worth scrutiny.

The other part is that without his hatred of Asians those people might not be dead. If that hatred is that consequential, sanctioning it with more severe sentences in order to deter it is appropriate.

It's society's way of saying the hatred itself is wrong.

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(March 20, 2021 at 8:50 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: When it comes to Corona, China definitely should be criticized and held to account for what they did by covering up the truth for as long as they could, punishing whistle blowers, and refusing to allow any investigations by outsiders for a long time. This was extremely reckless and impacted the world greatly. At the same time, the former POTUS should have been more careful with his language because that has had an impact. A lot of people are morons, and racist morons are going to act out in a situation like this.

How greatly did it affect the world? And how does that compare to how greatly the world was affected by people like Trump and Bolsanaro dismissing the virus?

Give me a number. How many more dead? And is that still true even though, knowing the virus was deadly, Donald Trump allowed 40,000 people to enter the U.S. from China?

(March 20, 2021 at 8:23 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(March 19, 2021 at 9:50 pm)Angrbodal Wrote: The point is that violence against certain classes has been used as a tool of oppression and using violence to hurt not just the victim but also all of their class is worse than personal violence.

Still seems silly to me....

Consider - the motherfucker in question in this case killed 8 people in cold blood. 6 were Asian 2 were not.
So are we going to debate what percentage of his hatred is directed at Asian people?

Who gives a shit? Overall his discrimination against Asians is peanuts compared to the fact that he killed 8 human beings.

He's going to get 8 life sentences. (He should face a firing squad) He's only getting out of prison horizontally.

Fuck this guy. Try him. If found guilty (I suspect he is) lock him in a 6 x 9 foot box and leave him there alone till he quits wasting atmosphere. Forget about the prick and who he likes or doesn't.

He' s not worth scrutiny.

Motives are important, as in we should try to understand what made him like that and how we might try to prevent others from following that path in the future, but you're right. It shouldn't really matter that much to the sentencing. What he did was fucked up enough already. The worst is that anti-lynching virtue signalling bill that Rand Paul rightfully opposed. Lynching is already a crime, and they redefined it to mean even a small scratch or whatever can be considered lynching. Rand Paul was made into a pro-lynching Nazi by the media for rightfully opposing it, of course.

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(March 20, 2021 at 9:06 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(March 20, 2021 at 8:23 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Still seems silly to me....

Consider - the motherfucker in question in this case killed 8 people in cold blood. 6 were Asian 2 were not.
So are we going to debate what percentage of his hatred is directed at Asian people?

Who gives a shit? Overall his discrimination against Asians is peanuts compared to the fact that he killed 8 human beings.

He's going to get 8 life sentences. (He should face a firing squad) He's only getting out of prison horizontally.

Fuck this guy. Try him. If found guilty (I suspect he is) lock him in a 6 x 9 foot box and leave him there alone till he quits wasting atmosphere. Forget about the prick and who he likes or doesn't.

He' s not worth scrutiny.

The other part is that without his hatred of Asians those people might not be dead.  If that hatred is that consequential, sanctioning it with more severe sentences in order to deter it is appropriate.

It's society's way of saying the hatred itself is wrong.

---

(March 20, 2021 at 8:50 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: When it comes to Corona, China definitely should be criticized and held to account for what they did by covering up the truth for as long as they could, punishing whistle blowers, and refusing to allow any investigations by outsiders for a long time. This was extremely reckless and impacted the world greatly. At the same time, the former POTUS should have been more careful with his language because that has had an impact. A lot of people are morons, and racist morons are going to act out in a situation like this.

How greatly did it affect the world?  And how does that compare to how greatly the world was affected by people like Trump and Bolsanaro dismissing the virus?

Give me a number.  How many more dead?  And is that still true even though, knowing the virus was deadly, Donald Trump allowed 40,000 people to enter the U.S. from China?

I can't give you a number, but China acted in it's own interests and said fuck the world. They hid the virus and punished whistle blowers. Didn't allow investigations. Trump fucked up as did China. This isn't a competition. Trump and the Chinese government are both horrendous.

(March 20, 2021 at 8:23 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Consider - the motherfucker in question in this case killed 8 people in cold blood. 6 were Asian 2 were not.
So are we going to debate what percentage of his hatred is directed at Asian people?

Who gives a shit? Overall his discrimination against Asians is peanuts compared to the fact that he killed 8 human beings.

Remember Elliot Rodger? On 22 May 2014, he killed seven people (including himself). 5 men and 2 women (including himself). You’d think that he would have more hatred towards men than women. Unfortunately, he left a wealth of information where he outright explains why he got to this point. Including this video (made in between phases of his killing spree):



And this 141-page manifesto/autobiography/outline of his future crimes. And if you’re interested in gleaning ANY insight into why he did what he did (something I doubt Biker actually is), his motives become painfully obvious: misogyny. Specifically, sexual frustration that happened because he was too shy to talk to girls and socially unaware enough that he never figured out that he was the one supposed to take the initiative. The one time he tried, it seems he just said “hi” to her at such a low volume that she probably didn’t even register that anything happened and he cried for an hour because it failed.

So, how did he end up killing more men than women? Well, Elliot outlined his plans for the Day of Retribution on pages 132 and 133 of his manifesto, and each phase he described fell short of his grandiose plans. Here’s a little rundown I made a while back of his plans vs. what actually ended up happening, with explanation for why they all failed, because, frankly, the reasons are obvious.

(Note: I changed the wording in places, but it’s all for readability; no real information is lost or gained.)

(September 20, 2020 at 8:08 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

1. He was to kill his stepmother Soumaya, who he describes as abusive, and his half-brother Jazz, who he feared would grow up to be a bigger success than him (allegedly, Soumaya fed these fears, even claiming he’d lose his virginity at a young age. Of course, we only have Elliot’s words for this.) Afterward, he would steal his father’s Mercedes SUV (more on this later). In reality, this entire phase was to be canceled because, contrary to his expectations, his father was still in town. Because he didn’t want to hesitate in killing his father (and leaving him alive would likely throw a wrench in the whole deal), nothing happened.
   
2. He planned to turn his dorm room into a torture chamber where he would lure women and torture them to death, severing their heads in the process. Since he had two roommates, he would have to kill them. In reality, he not only killed both roommates, but one of their guests. However, he never got around to luring women there, because, A) he stabbed one of them 94 times, and the cleanup necessary after all that carnage was intense, and B) well, I refer you to the passages on how simply approaching a woman was a bridge too far for Elliot to master.
   
3. He decided he would break into a sorority house on campus, specifically the Alpha Phi sorority, which was apparently the hottest sorority on campus. He planned to break into the house and kill as many women as possible with guns and knives before burning the building down. In reality, this plan was foiled because the door had a newfangled invention on it called a Lock. Instead of trying to break a window, like any normal psychopath bent on slaughtering sorority girls, he simply tried to knock on it. They didn’t hear, but two other girls noticed it, and he killed them. 
   
4. After this, he’d rush into his father’s SUV and drive down Del Playa street, ramming as many people as he can and shooting the rest. At some point, he’d dump a bag of the severed heads of the girls he tortured in Phase 2 onto the street and proclaiming how he made them all suffer. He’d keep this up until the cops arrive, at which point, he’d find a secluded place for him to take some Xanax, Vicodin, and alcohol, and give himself a little lead poisoning for good measure. In reality, because he only had his BMW coupe, the only people he killed were some random kid trying to buy a pack of potato chips, and himself (in much the same manner as planned, except he had the misfortune of crashing into a parked vehicle, “forcing” him to kill himself there.)
   

Maybe the two white people the shooter in Georgia killed were mistakes or just collateral damage (sometimes you miss shots or maybe you shoot something you didn’t plan on shooting), but, while even the shooter denied race was a motive in this case, what’s harder to deny is that he did this at a time when Anti-Asian sentiment has been booming. Trump’s “Chinese Virus” rhetoric has been linked to increased anti-Asian views being expressed online. And in the real world, even as hate crimes have overall dropped in the past year, crimes against Asian-Americans have skyrocketed.. It might not be as clear cut a motive as misogyny was in Elliot Rodger’s case, but given the social climate, it’s still relevant.

It's worth bearing in mind as well that even if his primary motive wasn't Asian American hatred, if he did hate Asian Americans then it affected his choices.

In the end, all that matters is that he did a bad thing. Does his motive somehow make his actions less reprehensible?

(March 20, 2021 at 10:22 am)Eleven Wrote: In the end, all that matters is that he did a bad thing. Does his motive somehow make his actions less reprehensible?

Of course it does. What if he needed money to buy medicine for his sick mother, and this was all a robbery gone bad. Does the motive matter then?