(May 26, 2021 at 10:52 am)Angrboda Wrote: Well, it's anybody's guess, for sure, but China's lack of transparency helped make that the case.  And it's not as if China is above acting on a conflict of interest.

-and the next one is only going to be worse.  We want to blame an actor for it's appearance as though we could hold some actor accountable and prevent it from happening, but that's not really true.  It's not even clear that china (or the next country)  could have done anything to change the trajectory here.  Our half a million dead wouldn't even be dead on chinas watch if china intentionally released a genetically engineered weapon.  We knew it existed, we knew it was a problem, we had a chance to contain it...and we made a deliberate decision not to contain it.

Quote:Care to explain exactly what you meant when you posted that there should be consequences for actions?

It's pretty self-explanatory. At least to anyone other than you apparently. But then again your a little off.

Quote: What consequences should there have been for the former head of the CDC?

His opinions should simply be treated as that an opinion and nothing more 

Quote:Dr. Fauci came out and said he's no longer confident in his previous assessment that the virus emerged from nature. 

Good for him. That proves absolutely fuck all 

Quote:The jig is up. For once, it's time for you to man up and accept that you were wrong. You're only digging that hole deeper.

Lol nope, it's time for me to laugh at your absurd response and then start dinner 


Oh and 

If you've got 20 minutes. Catch up with Chris' latest update.
He'll tell you why he thinks it's probably from a lab leak. He knows his shit.

 Chris Martenson hasn't done serious science since the freaking 90s and has been pushing Gold Doomsday Prepper bullshit and  Neo Malthusian nuttery on a fucking blog since. Now he's come woodwork during the pandemic pushing the end is near. Hell, not long ago he was pushing the notion the virus had been manipulated and  and was defending Hydroxychloroquine. So no ........

At this point does it really matter where it came from? If from their lab, will the world punish China?

This blame game is a lose-lose.

(May 29, 2021 at 3:28 pm)brewer Wrote: At this point does it really matter where it came from? If from their lab, will the world punish China?

This blame game is a lose-lose.

True and then they will isolate themselves even more and it will be even harder next time something happens

Trying to place the blame in any direction serves two purposes: 1) trying to punish those responsible, and 2) using the knowledge that we know now to stop the next pandemic in its tracks. For the first purpose, If it’s a lab leak, literally anything else that could have contributed to the initial spread in China is likely too big and powerful (or perhaps too nebulous) to meaningfully punish. If it isn’t, everything in that previous sentence after “literally” still applies. If we’re talking about the second, well, frankly, bear in mind we’re talking about a government so averse to criticism that they’ve banned anything related to Winnie the Pooh because Xi Jinping is sore about people online saying the two look alike. His initial response to the COVID crisis was honestly shockingly similar to Trump’s (at least throughout January, anyway) and a fuckton less opaque, up to and including sending a legal cease and desist order to the first people trying to sound the alarm. For them to fix it would require admitting they were wrong and committing to rectifying their mistakes, and I don’t see that happening with the PRC. Maybe after Xinping is dead, and not a moment earlier. Perhaps not even then. Either way, trying to blame somebody is little more than a dead end in this case.

(May 29, 2021 at 3:28 pm)brewer Wrote: At this point does it really matter where it came from? If from their lab, will the world punish China?

This blame game is a lose-lose.

It could have great implications on gain of function research. The Obama admin put a pause on gain of function research. I'm not necessarily for or against gain of function research, but some scientists are raising questions about whether it should be happening or whether it is too risky and could cause more pandemics like this one, or even worse ones.

If SARS-CoV-2 escaped from the WIV, China is not necessarily the only one to blame. The US and others funded that research at the WIV as well. This is why many think that virologists have been pushing so hard for a natural explanation. Because they don't want the public to turn on them and demand an end to gain of function research. Virologists have all the reason in the world to not want this to come out as having leaked from a lab.

While China would not necessarily be the only one to blame for a lab leak, the Chinese government has taken part in a cover up, causing who knows how much more damage to the world. And I'm not even talking about covering up a lab leak. We still don't know if it came from a lab, but the Chinese government covered up the existence of SARS-CoV-2 for as long as they could, and punished whistleblowers.

(May 29, 2021 at 7:13 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(May 29, 2021 at 3:28 pm)brewer Wrote: At this point does it really matter where it came from? If from their lab, will the world punish China?

This blame game is a lose-lose.

It could have great implications on gain of function research. The Obama admin put a pause on gain of function research. I'm not necessarily for or against gain of function research, but some scientists are raising questions about whether it should be happening or whether it is too risky and could cause more pandemics like this one, or even worse ones.

If SARS-CoV-2 escaped from the WIV, China is not necessarily the only one to blame. The US and others funded that research at the WIV as well. This is why many think that virologists have been pushing so hard for a natural explanation. Because they don't want the public to turn on them and demand an end to gain of function research. Virologists have all the reason in the world to not want this to come out as having leaked from a lab.

While China would not necessarily be the only one to blame for a lab leak, the Chinese government has taken part in a cover up, causing who knows how much more damage to the world. And I'm not even talking about covering up a lab leak. We still don't know if it came from a lab, but the Chinese government covered up the existence of SARS-CoV-2 for as long as they could, and punished whistleblowers.

You're living in a glass house. If you think the US (and other non-China countries) is not doing the same/similar type of "research" on biologics under wraps then you're not to bright. The "public will demand"? How simple are you?

Have fun with your hissy fit.

(May 29, 2021 at 7:28 pm)brewer Wrote:

(May 29, 2021 at 7:13 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: It could have great implications on gain of function research. The Obama admin put a pause on gain of function research. I'm not necessarily for or against gain of function research, but some scientists are raising questions about whether it should be happening or whether it is too risky and could cause more pandemics like this one, or even worse ones.

If SARS-CoV-2 escaped from the WIV, China is not necessarily the only one to blame. The US and others funded that research at the WIV as well. This is why many think that virologists have been pushing so hard for a natural explanation. Because they don't want the public to turn on them and demand an end to gain of function research. Virologists have all the reason in the world to not want this to come out as having leaked from a lab.

While China would not necessarily be the only one to blame for a lab leak, the Chinese government has taken part in a cover up, causing who knows how much more damage to the world. And I'm not even talking about covering up a lab leak. We still don't know if it came from a lab, but the Chinese government covered up the existence of SARS-CoV-2 for as long as they could, and punished whistleblowers.

You're living in a glass house. If you think the US (and other non-China countries) is not doing the same/similar type of "research" on biologics under wraps then you're not to bright. The "public will demand"? How simple are you?

Have fun with your hissy fit.

I suspect that he's just really young. I know how idealistic I was when I was young.