Accept it's been demonstrated that small businesses aren't not wiped out by wage hikes. In fact, in some cases, local economies see a boost.

Suppose, though, they were..and of that set, that we really only need to be concerned about those small businesses which provide some thing we deem necessary to our markets or society. Something they apparently have a monopoly on, but fail to profit from.

What do we do for them, or with those sectors?

(June 14, 2021 at 6:59 pm)outtathereligioncloset Wrote: When the government implemented tougher rules some years ago requiring more employers to provide health insurance for full-time employees, a whole BUNCH of people around here had their hours cut to 32 hours per week so the employers wouldn't have to pay for their health insurance.   Years later, those places (grocery store Food Lion comes to mind) STILL don't hire 40 hour per week employees.  Many of those same employees had to take on second jobs to make ends meet.  And in more skilled careers where hours were cut to 32 per week an awful lot of THOSE *salaried* employees were (and still are) required to still get 40 hours worth of work done in 32 hours.

And lets not forget the fact that employers have to pay for unemployment insurance and worker's comp insurance and contribute to their social security and Medicare for each employee.  An increase of min wg to $15 per hour will cause many employers to cut staff, do less hiring in the future, and set impossible expectations of workload for the employees they keep around.

I know college graduates who don't make $15 per hour.  That comes to $31,200 per year.  Nobody whose job is to say "do you want fries with that" is worth $15 per hour.

Sorry, not sorry.

You're talking about large companies there who are making massive profits and are also giving out massive amounts of money in director bonii and share buyback schemes. They can easily afford to employ people full time on far greater than a €15 per hour wage.

Back in the day when I worked shop assistant I calculated what I'd get if I was given a flat commission on 0.5% of what I rang through the till. It averaged at €800 per week, more than twice my then weekly wage c. €320 a week.

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(June 16, 2021 at 12:19 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(June 16, 2021 at 12:05 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Only the ones that want to stay profitable.


You dumbasses think you can legislate a market.


Ask the Soviets.... See how well that works out.

Oh - wait... No Soviets anymore....

The Russians are still paying for the stupidity you want to jump headlong into....

What do you see as the central failure of the CCCP economic model?

Capitalism, by the end of the 70s the USSR was running almost a pure capitalist economic model.

(June 16, 2021 at 4:12 pm)Helios Wrote: Accept it's been demonstrated that small businesses aren't not wiped out by wage hikes. In fact, in some cases, local economies see a boost.

I'm sure you mean "except".

I am in an old railroad town.  The downtown is filled with local shops that cater to the western culture of the area for the most part.  There are clothing boutiques, a locally owned flower shop, a coffee and whatnot shop that is very popular even though there are at least three Starbucks in town.  There's a furniture store that carries very rustic, heavy, western influenced goods that you don't find at the chains.  There are restaurants and now a winery.  There's a quilt shop and a place that sells candles they make as well as decorative things.  There's a tanning salon that is not a chain.  

The town pushed hard for people to continue to do business with these shops through the pandemic to keep the downtown going.  

All around the outside of town are the chain stores you would expect to see just about anywhere.

This town rallied to keep the feel of the town going.  But if they owners of some of these shops been expected to pay $15.00 per hour, I don't see how some of them would have made it.  Many cut operating hours but you could call and make an appointment.

You think they wouldn't survive and the well-studied fact that small businesses see little if any negative effects and some cases positive effects (which is why the majority of economists support it) are two very different things.

(June 16, 2021 at 5:07 pm)Helios Wrote: You think they wouldn't survive and the well-studied fact that small businesses see little if any negative effects and some cases positive effects (which is why the majority of economists support it) are two very different things.

Citation

(June 16, 2021 at 4:20 pm)Nomad Wrote:

(June 14, 2021 at 6:59 pm)outtathereligioncloset Wrote: When the government implemented tougher rules some years ago requiring more employers to provide health insurance for full-time employees, a whole BUNCH of people around here had their hours cut to 32 hours per week so the employers wouldn't have to pay for their health insurance.   Years later, those places (grocery store Food Lion comes to mind) STILL don't hire 40 hour per week employees.  Many of those same employees had to take on second jobs to make ends meet.  And in more skilled careers where hours were cut to 32 per week an awful lot of THOSE *salaried* employees were (and still are) required to still get 40 hours worth of work done in 32 hours.

And lets not forget the fact that employers have to pay for unemployment insurance and worker's comp insurance and contribute to their social security and Medicare for each employee.  An increase of min wg to $15 per hour will cause many employers to cut staff, do less hiring in the future, and set impossible expectations of workload for the employees they keep around.

I know college graduates who don't make $15 per hour.  That comes to $31,200 per year.  Nobody whose job is to say "do you want fries with that" is worth $15 per hour.

Sorry, not sorry.

You're talking about large companies there who are making massive profits and are also giving out massive amounts of money in director bonii and share buyback schemes.  They can easily afford to employ people full time on far greater than a €15 per hour wage.

Back in the day when I worked shop assistant I calculated what I'd get if I was given a flat commission on 0.5% of what I rang through the till.  It averaged at €800 per week, more than twice my then weekly wage c. €320 a week.

---

(June 16, 2021 at 12:19 pm)Angrboda Wrote: What do you see as the central failure of the CCCP economic model?

Capitalism, by the end of the 70s the USSR was running almost a pure capitalist economic model.

Frankly, the USSR gave up Communism pretty much from the start. It virtually becomes an oligarchy with a Communist veneer.

---

(June 16, 2021 at 5:10 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(June 16, 2021 at 5:07 pm)Helios Wrote: You think they wouldn't survive and the well-studied fact that small businesses see little if any negative effects and some cases positive effects (which is why the majority of economists support it) are two very different things.

Citation

On which claim ?

(June 16, 2021 at 4:58 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(June 16, 2021 at 4:12 pm)Helios Wrote: Accept it's been demonstrated that small businesses aren't not wiped out by wage hikes. In fact, in some cases, local economies see a boost.

I'm sure you mean "except".

I am in an old railroad town.  The downtown is filled with local shops that cater to the western culture of the area for the most part.  There are clothing boutiques, a locally owned flower shop, a coffee and whatnot shop that is very popular even though there are at least three Starbucks in town.  There's a furniture store that carries very rustic, heavy, western influenced goods that you don't find at the chains.  There are restaurants and now a winery.  There's a quilt shop and a place that sells candles they make as well as decorative things.  There's a tanning salon that is not a chain.  

The town pushed hard for people to continue to do business with these shops through the pandemic to keep the downtown going.  

All around the outside of town are the chain stores you would expect to see just about anywhere.

This town rallied to keep the feel of the town going.  But if they owners of some of these shops been expected to pay $15.00 per hour, I don't see how some of them would have made it.  Many cut operating hours but you could call and make an appointment.

 Why not?  You're already paying for nostalgia in a way that amounts to local tourism.  You could go to Old Timey Small Town Feels world for all of that merchandise, and get a lower price for it, -and- they can afford to pay their labor a better rate. Will all of the people who live there who are not working in that tourism sector and who are working for employers which can pay a higher wage not spend those higher wages there?

The death of small town america is a feature of capitalism, not a bug.  A good thing. Mom and Pops are just so many inefficient operators wasting labor and capital, and the american consumer demanded better.

(June 16, 2021 at 5:48 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: The death of small town america is a feature of capitalism, not a bug.  A good thing.  Mom and Pops are just so many inefficient operators wasting labor and capital, and the american consumer demanded better.

^^^

(June 16, 2021 at 5:48 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(June 16, 2021 at 4:58 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I'm sure you mean "except".

I am in an old railroad town.  The downtown is filled with local shops that cater to the western culture of the area for the most part.  There are clothing boutiques, a locally owned flower shop, a coffee and whatnot shop that is very popular even though there are at least three Starbucks in town.  There's a furniture store that carries very rustic, heavy, western influenced goods that you don't find at the chains.  There are restaurants and now a winery.  There's a quilt shop and a place that sells candles they make as well as decorative things.  There's a tanning salon that is not a chain.  

The town pushed hard for people to continue to do business with these shops through the pandemic to keep the downtown going.  

All around the outside of town are the chain stores you would expect to see just about anywhere.

This town rallied to keep the feel of the town going.  But if they owners of some of these shops been expected to pay $15.00 per hour, I don't see how some of them would have made it.  Many cut operating hours but you could call and make an appointment.

 Why not?  You're already paying for nostalgia in a way that amounts to local tourism.  You could go to Old Timey Small Town Feels world for all of that merchandise, and get a lower price for it, -and- they can afford to pay their labor a better rate.  Will all of the people who live there who are not working in that tourism sector and who are working for employers which can pay a higher wage not spend those higher wages there?

The death of small town america is a feature of capitalism, not a bug.  A good thing.  Mom and Pops are just so many inefficient operators wasting labor and capital, and the american consumer demanded better.

Yeah - FUCK MOM AND POP - those skeezy fucks can come work at McDonalds or Walmart like all us cool fuckers with "gauges" and bad haircuts making minimum wage!


[/snark]