At work.

Hullo!

In these sorts of conversations I put forwards "Non-theist" to get the ball rolling.

So, while I'm happy to acknowledge there might be 'Something' out there to which the term 'Diety' might be applied to. Whether it be from "Clarke's Law"or "Kirk's corollary" ('But.... what does god need with a space ship?') Things like these I'm quite open to.

As for all the diety claims I've so far heard? They are simply incoherant, illogical or otherwise simply not matching to reality as I (Admittedly limited) understand it.

Cheers.

(June 23, 2021 at 4:25 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: As for all the diety claims I've so far heard?

Deity. Not diety.

At work.

(June 23, 2021 at 4:44 pm)Belacqua Wrote:

(June 23, 2021 at 4:25 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: As for all the diety claims I've so far heard?

Deity. Not diety.

At work with limited pretty much everything. Hence 3rrors slip in.

Diety.

It was fear that created the need for gods. A little bit of ignorance and a heaping mound of conciet helped it along though.

I prefer the label Antitheistic Misanthrope.

I prefer to be known as Throat Warbler Mangrove.

(June 23, 2021 at 2:10 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I’ve known and been friends with many individuals who use “atheist” as a descriptor …and to a person, each of them has one of the following two beliefs, opinions, or guesses:

1)      There are no gods.
2)      It is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one god.

If I believe that it is more likely that there is a god then I'm probably a theist. Either that or exceedingly contrary.

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(June 23, 2021 at 4:44 pm)Belacqua Wrote:

(June 23, 2021 at 4:25 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: As for all the diety claims I've so far heard?

Deity. Not diety.

And then Diety said, "Let there be Lite!"

@Frank Apisa

You’re over-complicating this.

(June 23, 2021 at 3:25 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: The expression "None of us believe IN gods" really is shorthand of a sort for, "None of us believe there are any gods."

That does not mean you "believe" there are no gods...it just means you do not "believe" there are any gods.

But MANY people who describe themselves as atheists DO "BELIEVE" there are no gods. They assert there are no gods...they assert the existence of gods is impossible.

As stated above, you're over complicating this.

Simplified...
If you do not believe in any god, and claim no gods exist, you are a gnostic (hard) atheist.
If you do not believe in any god, but do not claim you know for certain that no gods exist, you are an agnostic (soft) atheist.

The only "requirement" for being an atheist is that you do not believe any gods exist. All the other details, whether you "know" or not, what the probabilities are, etc, are really a separate issue.

(June 23, 2021 at 2:10 pm)Frank Apisa Wrote: I’ve known and been friends with many individuals who use “atheist” as a descriptor …and to a person, each of them has one of the following two beliefs, opinions, or guesses:

1)      There are no gods.
2)      It is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one god.

I’m wondering if this is a universal truth (or close to a universal truth)  about people who use the descriptor…so what better place to ask it than an Internet Atheist Forum…and what better people to ask than people who use the descriptor?

Do any of you know people who use the descriptor “atheist” to describe themselves, but who do not subscribe to at least one of the two items mentioned above?

Is it your opinion that asserting one or both is universal to people who apply the descriptor to themselves?

That's actually a fair cop. I suppose there might be some atheist somewhere who thinks it is more likely at least one god exists than not and is just determined to not believe anyway. I don't mind saying I believe gods or a God are unlikely.

However which deity gets which estimate depends on the claims. A God that is omniscient and omnipotent has attributes that contradict each other (if it can do something other than what it has foreseen, it is not omniscient, if it can do something it has not foreseen, it is not omniscient); it is a married bachelor, a square circle, it does not exist. The God of Abraham as described in the Bible created days before he created the sun, flooded the entire world up past the mountaintops, and stopped the sun in the sky for the convenience of Hebrews fighting a battle; those things did not happen therefore the God that did them does not exist.

Some deities do not have attributes that contradict each other or acts that contradict what is known of physical reality. They still readily fall into what we know of myth-making and story telling and have no evidence that supports their actual existence, but they are not flat-out impossible so I rate them merely highly unlikely.

And full disclosure: I do not use a defintion of god that is non-supernatural. Super-advanced aliens or computers do not count, even if they create a universe or we cannot distinguish their technology from magic. That said, I do not claim such a being could not convince me it is a god. I would certainly call it a god if I thought it would do something awful to me if I didn't.