Not to mention that there's nothing wrong with selling a 5-year-old a car.

(July 19, 2021 at 6:20 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 19, 2021 at 6:06 pm)tackattack Wrote: So you’d have to lie on questions 23e and f on a 4473, which is a felony, to acquire a gun legally, if it’s not already a boot out of the background check?

I will never apply to purchase a firearm so I don't have to worry about lying. But for those who have applied, can go in thinking they don't have problems and think they are ok, even if they are not qualified. How many stories have you heard in the news of people who had no record of even mental illness, go in and purchase a legal firearm, only to end up committing suicide, or worse, have financial problems and kill their partner to avoid a divorce? It happens all the time. 

The idea that everyone will answer a question on a form honestly is bullshit. And lots of people go into buying ANYTHING, not just guns, but anything and sign a contract and think they can handle what they are getting into, even being honest, only to fuck up after the contract.

Even outside the issue of guns. I might not have bought the new house I am living in now, if I knew the problems I am currently having with it. I got caught up in the newness aspect of a new home. I ran into problems after the sale. 

I don't care if someone is intentually lying or mentally ill, or is not aware they are in over their head, or have ill intent at time of purchase. Our vetting system sucks.

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(July 19, 2021 at 6:18 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Gun shops aren’t supposed to do psychological evaluations or mandate physical training. They’re gun shops. 

Boru

Not supposed to. Yea and? Why shouldn't they?

Lets let car dealerships sell cars to 5 year olds.

What kind of crystal ball do you have?


Any person can go postal. Anyone.


I have NEVER seen any kind of testing that can reliably predict future abhorrent behavior and I'm betting you haven' t either. ( movies don' t count... You seem to glean your factoids from cinema).

We CAN however make judgements based on past behavior.

Why not use that and make such information public information when a gun sale is pending?

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(July 19, 2021 at 6:34 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Not to mention that there's nothing wrong with selling a 5-year-old a car.

except buying a car is a contractual agreement and minors are not eligible to make contracts....

(July 19, 2021 at 6:30 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 19, 2021 at 6:20 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I will never apply to purchase a firearm so I don't have to worry about lying. But for those who have applied, can go in thinking they don't have problems and think they are ok, even if they are not qualified. How many stories have you heard in the news of people who had no record of even mental illness, go in and purchase a legal firearm, only to end up committing suicide, or worse, have financial problems and kill their partner to avoid a divorce? It happens all the time. 

The idea that everyone will answer a question on a form honestly is bullshit. And lots of people go into buying ANYTHING, not just guns, but anything and sign a contract and think they can handle what they are getting into, even being honest, only to fuck up after the contract.

Even outside the issue of guns. I might not have bought the new house I am living in now, if I knew the problems I am currently having with it. I got caught up in the newness aspect of a new home. I ran into problems after the sale. 

I don't care if someone is intentually lying or mentally ill, or is not aware they are in over their head, or have ill intent at time of purchase. Our vetting system sucks.

---

Not supposed to. Yea and? Why shouldn't they?

Lets let car dealerships sell cars to 5 year olds.

They shouldn’t because they are in the business of selling firearms. They’re neither psychologists nor training providers.

And cars are really a stupid analogy. Is a car dealership responsible for teaching you how to drive, or to make sure your psychologically fit to drive? No. Why? Because it isn’t their responsibility. What they do is make sure you have a valid license and insurance (if required). But these are taken care of by other agencies, not car dealers.

Boru

It isn't the job of the 7-11 employee to prevent underage people from buying beer or cigarettes?

I used to work at a 7-11. I constantly I.D.'d people for beer and smokes, and even denied purchase of such to adults I suspected of straw purchasing for the underage. Why did I do that? Because unlike firearms, if my failure to insure a proper purchase I could have lost my job and even gone to jail.

I am tired of the bullshit argument from the far right that firearms are over restricted and are oppressive.

(July 19, 2021 at 6:39 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 19, 2021 at 6:30 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: They shouldn’t because they are in the business of selling firearms. They’re neither psychologists nor training providers.

And cars are really a stupid analogy. Is a car dealership responsible for teaching you how to drive, or to make sure your psychologically fit to drive? No. Why? Because it isn’t their responsibility. What they do is make sure you have a valid license and insurance (if required). But these are taken care of by other agencies, not car dealers.

Boru

It isn't the job of the 7-11 employee to prevent underage people from buying beer or cigarettes?

I used to work at a 7-11. I constantly I.D.'d people for beer and smokes, and even denied purchase of such to adults I suspected of straw purchasing for the underage. Why did I do that? Because unlike firearms, if my failure to insure a proper purchase I could have lost my job and even gone to jail.

I am tired of the bullshit argument from the far right that firearms are over restricted and are oppressive.

You’re comparing an illegal purchase (a minor buying alcohol or tobacco) with a legal one (an adult buying a firearm).

Furthermore, it’s another stupid analogy. For it to be valid, you’d have to make the case that store clerks are responsible for educating people about the dangers of booze and cigarettes.

In a very real, practical sense, gun shops are doing EXACTLY what store clerks are doing - they’re making sure that the customer is legally allowed to buy that product.

Boru

Where do you find these five year olds driving their own cars to the QuickTrip to get beer and cigarettes?

Seems that seeing over the dash while still being able to reach the pedals would be a problem.

(July 19, 2021 at 6:34 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Not to mention that there's nothing wrong with selling a 5-year-old a car.

Um what? I think you are missing my point. There still are laws preventing someone that young from driving. The way the NRA treats firearms, they would allow that 5 year old to drive. An adult can put their kids in their will, but that doesn't mean if they suddenly die while the kid is young, it means the kid can handle adult responsibilities.

(July 19, 2021 at 7:07 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 19, 2021 at 6:34 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Not to mention that there's nothing wrong with selling a 5-year-old a car.

Um what? I think you are missing my point. There still are laws preventing someone that young from driving. The way the NRA treats firearms, they would allow that 5 year old to drive. An adult can put their kids in their will, but that doesn't mean if they suddenly die while the kid is young, it means the kid can handle adult responsibilities.

You can own a car and not drive it.

(July 19, 2021 at 7:07 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 19, 2021 at 6:34 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Not to mention that there's nothing wrong with selling a 5-year-old a car.

Um what? I think you are missing my point. There still are laws preventing someone that young from driving. The way the NRA treats firearms, they would allow that 5 year old to drive. An adult can put their kids in their will, but that doesn't mean if they suddenly die while the kid is young, it means the kid can handle adult responsibilities.

Laws preventing them from driving cars, not from buying them. You're comparing apples to oranges.

(July 19, 2021 at 7:04 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Where do you find these five year olds driving their own cars to the QuickTrip to get beer and cigarettes?

Seems that seeing over the dash while still being able to reach the pedals would be a problem.

I was a teen myself before I worked at 7-11. I cannot tell you how many times I got strangers and slightly older, legal adults to buy me beer and smokes. In fact, my late mother, a lifetime public school teacher, had the bullshit attitude that if I was drinking or smoking pot in her basement, which I did, somehow that would make me safer. I was lucky, I had plenty of parties as a teen underage, where I did stupid shit in the basement, that if she had been caught, she could have lost her pension, job and been charged. 

FYI I was being metaphorical. The point with guns, is the same as driving and alcohol. If I had my way, nobody under 21 would touch a firearm or smokes or booze. I made enough mistakes being under age with all those things to know I was lucky I didn't get arrested or die. 

I used to hang out at the very 7-11 as a teen under 17 and hit adults up to buy me beer or smokes. But yet in modern times even when a 9 year old girl accidentally shoots her instructor because gun worshipers think firearms and kids are fun. The NRA  and gun worshipers are fine with the fact that she will live with PTSD for the rest of her life.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post...eath-suit/

(July 19, 2021 at 7:18 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 19, 2021 at 7:04 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Where do you find these five year olds driving their own cars to the QuickTrip to get beer and cigarettes?

Seems that seeing over the dash while still being able to reach the pedals would be a problem.

I was a teen myself before I worked at 7-11. I cannot tell you how many times I got strangers and slightly older, legal adults to buy me beer and smokes. In fact, my late mother, a lifetime public school teacher, had the bullshit attitude that if I was drinking or smoking pot in her basement, which I did, somehow that would make me safer. I was lucky, I had plenty of parties as a teen underage, where I did stupid shit in the basement, that if she had been caught, she could have lost her pension, job and been charged. 

FYI I was being metaphorical. The point with guns, is the same as driving and alcohol. If I had my way, nobody under 21 would touch a firearm or smokes or booze. I made enough mistakes being under age with all those things to know I was lucky I didn't get arrested or die. 

I used to hang out at the very 7-11 as a teen under 17 and hit adults up to buy me beer or smokes. But yet in modern times even when a 9 year old girl accidentally shoots her instructor because gun worshipers think firearms and kids are fun. The NRA  and gun worshipers are fine with the fact that she will live with PTSD for the rest of her life.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post...eath-suit/

That story has absolutely nothing to do with firearms purchases.

Boru