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RE: Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny?
July 30, 2021 at 2:24 pm (This post was last modified: July 30, 2021 at 2:50 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Quote:but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
-God, on the proper conduct of native genocide.
Some Atheists™ are concerned by and of the opinion that god in magic book commanded, endorsed, and regulated slavery - because he did.
Man, lowly fallen worm that he is, outlawed it.
To put a fine point on it, beyond pure fanfic argument, we know that they were a slaving society and that their appetite for slaves exceeded their ability to produce them in country both biblically, and extrabiblically. As in, archeaologically. Insomuch as contemporary christianity as a movement doesn't support slavery, it's in the disagreement of contemporary believers with the foundational myth of their own religion, their own god - and in their contemporary disagreement with the culture that produced that myth and absolutely were eager slavers. They've been secularized by an anti-slavery state and culture. If the contents of this thread were representative...and god knows they aren't, if that state or culture fell to theocracy 1/3rd of christians would go buy their very own slave, 1/3 would pretend not to see them doing it, and the remaining third would declare anyone who objected an asshole for mentioning it.
I don't think god is sending his best people.....
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny?
July 30, 2021 at 2:49 pm (This post was last modified: July 30, 2021 at 2:51 pm by tackattack.
Edit Reason: Added content
)
(July 30, 2021 at 2:24 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
Quote:but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
-God, on the proper conduct of native genocide.
Some Atheists™ are concerned by and of the opinion that god in magic book commanded, endorsed, and regulated slavery - because he did.
Man, lowly fallen worm that he is, outlawed it.
31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people. 3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the Lord of Midian. 4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war. 5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. 6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand. 7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. 8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword. 9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. 10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. 11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts. 12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho. 13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. 14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. 15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? 16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord. 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. 19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood. 21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord commanded Moses; 22 Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead, 23 Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water. 24 And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp. 25 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation: 27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: 28 And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: 29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord. 30 And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord. 31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses. 32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep, 33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves, 34 And threescore and one thousand asses, 35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him. 36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep: 37 And the Lord'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen. 38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the Lord'S tribute was threescore and twelve. 39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the Lord'S tribute was threescore and one. 40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the Lord'S tribute was thirty and two persons. 41 And Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord'S heave offering, unto Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses. 42 And of the children of Israel's half, which Moses divided from the men that warred, 43 (Now the half that pertained unto the congregation was three hundred thousand and thirty thousand and seven thousand and five hundred sheep, 44 And thirty and six thousand beeves, 45 And thirty thousand asses and five hundred, 46 And sixteen thousand persons 47 Even of the children of Israel's half, Moses took one portion of fifty, both of man and of beast, and gave them unto the Levites, which kept the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord; as the Lord commanded Moses. 48 And the officers which were over thousands of the host, the captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds, came near unto Moses: 49 And they said unto Moses, Thy servants have taken the sum of the men of war which are under our charge, and there lacketh not one man of us. 50 We have therefore brought an oblation for the Lord, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the Lord. 51 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of them, even all wrought jewels. 52 And all the gold of the offering that they offered up to the Lord, of the captains of thousands, and of the captains of hundreds, was sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty shekels. 53 (For the men of war had taken spoil, every man for himself.) 54 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of the captains of thousands and of hundreds, and brought it into the tabernacle of the congregation, for a memorial for the children of Israel before the Lord.
Italicized- what God said Bold- What Moses or Elezar said Underlined- the relevant text in context.
Yes the Lord did tell them how to divide up 16k women and children prisoners of war for Moses. If that is the distinction you're making then I have to concede that the Bible promotes slavery, as does every nation before and since (including modernity) where prisoners are taken. So this isn't really about Christians and slavery, (not free or free)it's about the Bible telling us how to handle and treat people, which it does, therefore I concede my argument. Thanks for the dialog, now on to misogyny?
Edit- Sorry you had 3 revisions on that and it's hard to keep up. I conceded, on to misogyny?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
RE: Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny?
July 30, 2021 at 2:52 pm (This post was last modified: July 30, 2021 at 2:54 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
"Many other people did bad things too"..said the christian contemplating his good god, after having suddenly found the eyes in his own skull.
What would you like to discuss about misogyny? Are we going to have to jump through the performative hoop of you insisting that you've never seen it? Or can we just agree that magic book says some shit you don't agree with and don't wish to defend?
I hate the feeling of having to pull teeth for such a triviality.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny?
July 30, 2021 at 3:14 pm
define misogyny in this context and I'll spare you the exegesis.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
RE: Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny?
July 30, 2021 at 3:25 pm (This post was last modified: July 30, 2021 at 3:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You've spared me nothing, pretending that we don't speak the same language, and betraying the fact that you see and know exactly the problem. Why is it so hard, at least on this board, for a christian to say, rightly, that they wouldn't cosign everything the god of magic book has? A - that rejection is a fundamental part of christian belief... B... it's manifestly clear that you wouldn't.
That's why I take this sort of shit so poorly, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny?
July 30, 2021 at 3:52 pm
I apologize if I'm doing something to make you take the conversation poorly, it's not my intent. I just want a dialogue, and wanted to be clear. Since you won't answer the question I will. If the definition of misogyny is the ingrained contempt of all women. I do not believe the Bible supports that. If your definition of misogyny is suppressing the commonly accepted modern rights of women then I believe the Bible does support that.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
RE: Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny?
July 30, 2021 at 3:58 pm (This post was last modified: July 30, 2021 at 4:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Your beliefs are irrelevant. The state of magic book as a static item is all that matters in a conversation about the contents of magic book. Your beliefs are wholly relevent...to your beliefs, otoh. It's on the strength of that improved belief with respect to the contents from which you draw belief that I expect more of you than those believers who wrote it.
The whole world does, even you do.
When you fail to do so, you poorly represent yourself and the contemporary state of your religion. For john or huggy, I figure it's just to troll the kaffir - but i can't pin down why you would wring your fellows though it. I am surprised by your participation in this thread. You might even say that those other two knuckleheads got my ire from you...wrongly, on account of how I already knew they were pieces of shit - but I can never bring myself to place you in their company. Was I wrong about that and about you? Did you not cringe just a little contemplating your fellow (alleged) christians responses? Your own? If you did, how can you explain the past few remarks of your own in this thread. WTF happened?
To my mind, you were (all three of you) set up with a t-ball kind of question - and rather than knock it out of the park, you set fire to the field and called everyone who noticed the fire an asshole or delusional. What....the fuck....is that...? Is that a requirement of christian belief or the christian god, as you experience it....?
Magic book certainly and inarguably supports the ingrained contempt of all women - but you don't believe in that..or, at least, I want to believe that you don't. If you're preparing to launch into some doomed argument counter to that, that contempt is not contempt, I'm obviously not here for it. The people who wrote that shit believed a bunch of shit that you don't. Thats been the true and unassailable answer since the word go - for all of you -. I'm over here searching for the single righteous man in sodom..ffs........
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny?
July 30, 2021 at 6:46 pm (This post was last modified: July 30, 2021 at 7:49 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(July 30, 2021 at 8:42 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Do you know what a moral thought looks like? We've got Huggy approving slavery, Tack pretending he doesn't have eyes to see, you calling anyone who mentions the nasty shit in your magic book a duplicitous asshole.
Honestly, fuck all of you. You're all disgusting.
I love all the moral grandstanding while you reap the benefits of a country built by slavery, I'm a literal descendant of slaves from Mississippi, my father was sharecropper and picked cotton as a child, my last name 'McGowan' is a slave name... I'm a piece of shit? Why? Because I make a distinction between indentured servitude and chattel slavery? Even now you have white people claiming that white people were also slaves because of "indentured servitude" that some white Europeans experienced, as if it was anywhere at the level of inhumanity that the black slaves suffered.
Comparing indentured servitude with chattel slavery is a damn insult, so find somewhere to sit down, your moralizing shtick is getting old.
So, maybe my last post ignored Breezy's question... which was, "could approach 1 lead rationally to the Golden Rule trumping other misogynistic verses in the Bible?" Assuming approach 1, the bottom up one... I think I could answer "yes."
There IS a line of logic that can be drawn from the bottom up approach to the rejection of misogyny.
But can I ask Neo and Breezy if they subscribe to this sort of reasoning? Do you guys think this is how the Bible OUGHT to be understood? Does the bottom up approach lead the two of you to reject the misogynistic verses (in your assessment)? I'm assuming the second greatest commandment "overrules" other commandments that conflict with it. Is that YOUR understanding?
RE: Is Christianity Inherently Supportive Of Slavery And Misogyny?
August 1, 2021 at 1:02 pm
(July 30, 2021 at 2:18 pm)tackattack Wrote:
(July 29, 2021 at 3:32 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:
Please process this information for us:
OK..........
OK
Nice try to bury the issue under a huuuuuuge pile of horseshit.
Now given ALL the context you want (and seemingly need), dont post that wall of BS again, plz, make out of it what you want but WHAT DOES YOUR GOD WANT TO SAY WITH THESE VERSES WITHIN THE GIVEN CONTEXT....take your time and respond, to those verses, no walls of text no dissertations....just your conclusions: WHAT DOES HE SAY HERE (or better: what does the bible claims he said here)?
And no, NOONE said god orders people they SHOULD have slaves, but what does he do here?
Quote:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have (B), shall be(A) of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye(a) buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you(B), of them shall ye(A) buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 And ye shall take them(A) as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever(B): but over your brethren the children of Israel(B), ye shall not(A) rule one over another with rigour.
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