(October 11, 2021 at 2:46 pm)Spongebob Wrote:

(October 11, 2021 at 2:17 pm)slartibartfast Wrote: Your comment re. praying audibly / publicly probably stems in part from the indoctrination process. How does a parent know the child is praying properly and for the right things? How do you "prove" to other Christians that you are praying (and therefore strengthen the communal bond). If everyone always prayed silently and without any physical gestures at all, a lot of the societal / communal "common language" would be lost. 

Your comment also made me think another crazy thought. That which relates to people always looking up when they are talking to / thinking of God. Clearly that comes from the outdated concept that the Earth is flat, infinitely deep and they believed that good things (ie. Heaven, God) must be in the "sky" and bad things (Hell, the Devil) must be within the earth. I don't think that modern Christians still believe that Hell is somehow located within the Earth itself, or God or Heaven are floating in the sky somewhere, but the concept still prevails. The other funny thing is if God IS concentrated more in some areas in the universe than others (and not uniformly distributed) then where? Maybe praying downwards would actually give you the best bang for your buck 

Yes, the rituals of mass prayer and group prayer are manifestations of what I was talking about, prayer as theater.  Theists of all sorts do this and it boils down to the same reasons.  You want others to see/hear it.

Keep in mind that most Christians bow their head in prayer as a gesture of reverence and perhaps humility.  But closing the eyes, I have no idea what that's about.

Nobody ever prays just so others can see/hear them pray. That's stupid. This is a delusion you made up to justify your lack of faith.

Praying in fast food resturaunts is kind of a Southern thing. Growing up in the Midwest, private professions of faith in public settings was considered "wearing you religion on your sleeve" and frowned upon. Then during a business trip I saw a family in Georgia saying their blessing over a Boston Market dinner. I thought it a bit strange at the time, a bit pretentious maybe..definitely a culture shock...so I am not judging...that's how they do it down there.

(October 11, 2021 at 7:05 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Nobody ever prays just so others can see/hear them pray. That's stupid. This is a delusion you made up to justify your lack of faith.

I would hope not, though the public nature of public displays of faith is intentionally public.  Religious communities enjoy seeing each other praying and observing.  That's the utility of communal ritual.

We should start bashing people who pray in public the way they bash gay couples for holding hands.

Turns out a bunch of them are praying for a dictatorship, seems a bit worse than a pda to me.

(October 11, 2021 at 7:05 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(October 11, 2021 at 2:46 pm)Spongebob Wrote: Yes, the rituals of mass prayer and group prayer are manifestations of what I was talking about, prayer as theater.  Theists of all sorts do this and it boils down to the same reasons.  You want others to see/hear it.

Keep in mind that most Christians bow their head in prayer as a gesture of reverence and perhaps humility.  But closing the eyes, I have no idea what that's about.

Nobody ever prays just so others can see/hear them pray. That's stupid. This is a delusion you made up to justify your lack of faith.

Now that's a delusion.  In fact, I began to consider this before I ever thought about leaving the church.  Excessive showiness in religion has little to do with actual faith.  In some churches it's expected that attendants behave as if they are possessed or inhabited by the spirit of Jesus to demonstrate their faith.  I've had lengthy conversations about this with actual members (again when I was a full on believing Southern Baptist myself).  In fact, this is just one of the many, many problems that eventually led me away from belief in Jesus.  Just so many irrational and indefensible problems.  To some degree, many, probably most, Christians use prayer in this way, to communicate or demonstrate to other people, Christians and non-Christians alike, whether they do this consciously or not doesn't matter.  Prayer in the Catholic church has for a very long time been largely an act of theater, with the clergy carefully plotting and researching the right material for a prayer.  For important occasions they are for all practical purposes well written and rehearsed productions.  I'm not going to discount the act of private prayer, but it just demonstrates the fact that the need to pray publicly is clear evidence that Christians want others to witness them praying.

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(October 11, 2021 at 9:08 pm)Foxaire Wrote: We should start bashing people who pray in public the way they bash gay couples for holding hands.

I'm not advocating anything of the sort so you can unwad your panties.  But of course your ignorant comment only buttresses my assertion.  Gay couples most certainly hold hands in public with the intent on being seen and are proud of it.  I'm happy for them and if people want to pray in public I'm fine with that as well, but it does not harm to point out why they do it.

Quote:I'm happy for them and if people want to pray in public I'm fine with that

Yeah you sound fine with it.

(October 11, 2021 at 11:03 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

Quote:I'm happy for them and if people want to pray in public I'm fine with that

Yeah you sound fine with it.

Just busting your balls. You make some good points, but your heart's not in the right place.

Did it escape his chest?